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Andy D
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« on: 21:40:47, 22-10-2007 » |
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I went to an excellent concert tonight. It was advertised as:
Trombone: Michele Lomuto
Live Electronics and Sound Direction: Francesco Scagliola
Works by Giacomo Manzoni, Agostino Di Scipio, Azio Corghi, Giorgio Tedde, Luca Francesconi and Aldo Clementi
but as there was no printed programme (the pieces were introduced) I'm not sure exactly which composers we had - however I do know that there was no Clementi, which was a bit of a disappointment to me as he's a great favourite of mine. It was a fascinating programme and Michele played for 1h 45m with no interval (though there were lengthy setting up breaks between pieces).
The last piece was by Francesconi and, in it, he held a cup-shaped mute in his left hand which he moved in and out and - here's my question - he had a piece of cord looped round his left elbow which was attached to something on the instrument, presumably to move it - what was he doing?
He did explain but his English wasn't that wonderful - unlike the piece which was.
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richard barrett
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« Reply #1 on: 21:51:38, 22-10-2007 » |
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he held a cup-shaped mute in his left hand which he moved in and out and - here's my question - he had a piece of cord looped round his left elbow which was attached to something on the instrument, presumably to move it - what was he doing? This is one possible solution to the problem of using a plunger mute at the same time as needing to operate the "F trigger", a valve which transposes the entire trombone down a fourth (this kind of trombone is called a "tenor-bass trombone" and is the type most commonly in professional use, at least by soloists) in order to fill in some missing notes (see the trumpet thread!) in the lower register of the instrument. Another way of dealing with the problem is to fix the mute on a music-stand, operate the valve as normal and move the trombone. This problem doesn't often occur, but I have to admit responsibility for bringing it into at least some trombonists' lives in a piece I wrote in 1988, coincidentally not long after Luca F wrote his. |
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Andy D
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« Reply #2 on: 22:43:08, 22-10-2007 » |
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Thanks Richard, the "F trigger" probably was what he said. As he was moving the mute quite a bit, putting it on a music stand wouldn't really have worked. It was the sort of mute which produces a wah-wah effect, which seems to be a plunger mute judging from the images I've just got on Google. He did use a (different) mute clamped to a music stand for several other pieces. Michele said he invented this technique in response to what Francesconi wanted to write.
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David_Underdown
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« Reply #3 on: 10:43:28, 23-10-2007 » |
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This is one possible solution to the problem of using a plunger mute at the same time as needing to operate the "F trigger", a valve which transposes the entire trombone down a fourth (this kind of trombone is called a "tenor-bass trombone" and is the type most commonly in professional use, at least by soloists) in order to fill in some missing notes (see the trumpet thread!) in the lower register of the instrument.
Bb and F is slightly more common in English usage I think, tenor-bass is more German. |
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David
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #4 on: 10:51:29, 23-10-2007 » |
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I don't move much in orchestral circles but where I come from such a thing is normally just called a 'trombone' unless for some reason you have a need to specify it (along the lines of 'bass clarinet in Bb'...). I don't think I've ever seen a professional trombonist without a trigger (maybe once in an orchestra but that was because Richard had specifically asked for it  ). Another possible solution to the instant mute change is to have the mute on a stand and move the stand - for example by pushing it away with your foot although that's not really recommended unless you're seated. Yet another is this kind of arrangement.  |
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David_Underdown
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« Reply #5 on: 13:45:16, 23-10-2007 » |
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They're certainly not universal in British symphony orchestras. Can't think of specific examples right now, but I know I've seen "straight" tenors in use fairly frequently.
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David
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #6 on: 19:25:38, 23-10-2007 » |
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I know I've seen "straight" tenors in use fairly frequently.
Straight trombones?  |
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aaron cassidy
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« Reply #7 on: 22:20:13, 24-10-2007 » |
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I know I've seen "straight" tenors in use fairly frequently.
Straight trombones? Straight tenors? (Oh, wait, we're talking about something different.) |
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roslynmuse
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« Reply #8 on: 22:47:26, 24-10-2007 » |
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Notoriously Bombastic
Posts: 181
Never smile at the brass
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« Reply #9 on: 00:56:27, 26-10-2007 » |
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Ooh, I can do trombone questions...
The thumb valve is known as a plug (at least this side of the pond) presumably since it plugs a gap in the range.
Tenor-bass trombone is rather old fashioned term (as in the Berlioz/Strauss textbook). Bass trombone is assumed to refer to a larger bore instrument rather than one with an extended range.
I too would refer to a 'straight' tenor. They are quite common for big band work, often with a rather small bore (= peashooter) which makes blending hard on a bass trombone. Not HIP, but in classical orchestra work the tenors will often play straight instruments with the bass on a single plug to lighten up the tone.
I've never sucessfully plungered on bass trombone - the bell is bigger than a tenor so the mute is too small, plus the all the linkages dig into the shoulder rather nastily.
NB 007
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Kittybriton
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« Reply #11 on: 13:06:55, 26-10-2007 » |
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Hmm. According to your avatar you don't have a beard, but do you: - ride a motorbike
- drink beer
etc.? |
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Click me -> About meor me -> my handmade storeNo, I'm not a complete idiot. I'm only a halfwit. In fact I'm actually a catfish. |
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David_Underdown
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« Reply #12 on: 13:41:55, 26-10-2007 » |
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Beer yes, the rest, no.
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David
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perfect wagnerite
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« Reply #13 on: 12:26:37, 27-10-2007 » |
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Ooh, I can do trombone questions...
The thumb valve is known as a plug (at least this side of the pond) presumably since it plugs a gap in the range.
Tenor-bass trombone is rather old fashioned term (as in the Berlioz/Strauss textbook). Bass trombone is assumed to refer to a larger bore instrument rather than one with an extended range.
I too would refer to a 'straight' tenor. They are quite common for big band work, often with a rather small bore (= peashooter) which makes blending hard on a bass trombone. Not HIP, but in classical orchestra work the tenors will often play straight instruments with the bass on a single plug to lighten up the tone.
I've never sucessfully plungered on bass trombone - the bell is bigger than a tenor so the mute is too small, plus the all the linkages dig into the shoulder rather nastily.
NB 007
As it happens, my daughter plays bass trombone in the local youth orchestra - but does it on her tenor trombone (a Conn 88H) using the trigger. |
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At every one of these [classical] concerts in England you will find rows of weary people who are there, not because they really like classical music, but because they think they ought to like it. (Shaw, Don Juan in Hell)
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