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Author Topic: Butterflies  (Read 335 times)
Tony Watson
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« on: 21:06:24, 20-02-2008 »

I've just seen the poster someone's produced for a concert I'm involved in and there are a few errors in it (such as "Der" Meistersinger) but I am not so sure about Madam Butterfly. Is it pedantic to insist on Madama? And why does Madame Butterfly seem to be widespread (or is that the correct form)?
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #1 on: 21:15:57, 20-02-2008 »

There's an odd thing about operatic titles.  The ENO would always say The Marriage of Figaro, The Magic Flute, The Bartered Bride or even Wagnerian titles.  But there are some which are never translated, as untranslatable, Traviata, Trovatore, Cosi fan tutte, Freischutz, Boheme.

I get the impression that if there was not a standard English translation of the title in the past, then the original is used.  Lucy of Lammermoor is the unambiguous and accurate translation of the work the ENO is calling Lucia di Lammermoor.

Madama Butterfly sounds a bit precious to my mind, probably because Butterfly is a standard English word.
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« Reply #2 on: 23:57:23, 20-02-2008 »

The justification that can be put up for the spelling "Madame Butterfly" is that John Luther Long's original novel- on which the play was based - was titled exactly that way.  I am not really sure this holds too much importance,  as we don't call Verdi's "jester" opera "Le Roi S'Amuse". 

It doesn't disturb me to see EVGENY ONEGIN titled "Eugene Onegin".  Sometimes something is lost, however...  VEC MAKROPOLOUS is usually translated as "The Makropoulos Case" in English, but this misses the equally dual meaning "Vec" can have as a "substance"... in this case, the "substance" made from the secret formula of eternal life.
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Ruth Elleson
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« Reply #3 on: 10:29:58, 21-02-2008 »

There's an odd thing about operatic titles.  The ENO would always say The Marriage of Figaro,

...or, in the case of the production-before-the-production-before-last, "Figaro's Wedding" - which is semantically more accurate but which I found affected and pretentious.

Quote
But there are some which are never translated, as untranslatable, Traviata, Trovatore, Cosi fan tutte, Freischutz, Boheme.

Of that list I'd say Trovatore is an odd one out, as it is straightforwardly translatable.  But nobody ever does.

Quote
I get the impression that if there was not a standard English translation of the title in the past, then the original is used.  Lucy of Lammermoor is the unambiguous and accurate translation of the work the ENO is calling Lucia di Lammermoor.

I certainly wouldn't want the title to be given as "Lucy of Lammermoor" unless the sung translation were also to refer to Lucy, Henry, Edgar, Arthur and so forth.  Which would make it even much more difficult for the translator to find English phrases which complement the musical line.

As to the original question - Madam or Madama or Madame Butterfly - I would expect that a listing in England for an Italian-language performance would be given as Madama, but that an English-language performance would be given as Madam (not Madame, despite the fact that the source text was so called).  Of course this probably doesn't help if the listing is for an excerpts concert, given that perhaps the most popular excerpt has neither Italian nor English words... Wink Cheesy
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« Reply #4 on: 12:48:40, 21-02-2008 »


Quote
But there are some which are never translated, as untranslatable, Traviata, Trovatore, Cosi fan tutte, Freischutz, Boheme.

Of that list I'd say Trovatore is an odd one out, as it is straightforwardly translatable.  But nobody ever does.


Don B, was your TROVATORE in Bucurest called that, or did they modify the name to suit local usage?  In Russia it's almost always called "Trubador", and I'm sure that "what you're used to" plays a large part in these things.  Replying to the original question... even five years ago,  the answer in Moscow would have been that the opera's called CIO-CIO-SAN...  a neat side-step for audiences who might not have known what a "butterfly" was.  These days it's come back to being MADAMA BUTTERFLY, and the most recent Bolshoi production (a woefully static and turgid event) went out with this name on it.

What about PAGLIACCI, and CAV?  "Rustic Chivalry" sounds pretty dull to me Sad
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #5 on: 17:27:28, 21-02-2008 »

It was sung in Italian



I note from the website that Opera Nationala Bucaresti are due to sing FIICA REGIMENTULUI in concert.  (The Daughter of the Regiment, in old Victorian usage) but tomorrow they will be doing VADUVA VESELA (Merry Widow??  which I have seen repeatedly advertised in Italy as La vedova allegra.)  FLAUTUL FERMECAT is on the web site, which the English language version of the page gives as The Magic Flute.

ENO is not doing The Knight of the Rose later this season, I notice.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
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« Reply #6 on: 01:01:57, 22-02-2008 »

FLAUTUL FERMECAT

The Flatulent Farm-Cat?  Wink
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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