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IgnorantRockFan
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« on: 14:35:52, 11-09-2008 » |
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Is a "chunk" of a classical work always a "movement"? People talk about a movement of a symphony or concerto, but in other contexts the term doesn't always seem to be used consistently.
Is "Mars" a "movement", for example?
Is the "Gavote" from a Bach partita a "movement"?
How about one song from a cycle?
How about the Agnus Dei from a Mass?
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Allegro, ma non tanto
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #1 on: 14:45:55, 11-09-2008 » |
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Is a "chunk" of a classical work always a "movement"? People talk about a movement of a symphony or concerto, but in other contexts the term doesn't always seem to be used consistently.
Is "Mars" a "movement", for example?
Is the "Gavote" from a Bach partita a "movement"?
How about one song from a cycle?
How about the Agnus Dei from a Mass?
I think yes, yes, no and yes. If that's any help. Which it doesn't look like it might be.  |
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IgnorantRockFan
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« Reply #2 on: 14:49:46, 11-09-2008 » |
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Well, it's a start  |
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Allegro, ma non tanto
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increpatio
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« Reply #3 on: 14:52:25, 11-09-2008 » |
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I wouldn't have considered the Angus Dei a movement myself. I would always have called it a part myself.
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richard barrett
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« Reply #4 on: 15:24:24, 11-09-2008 » |
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Is "Mars" a "movement", for example?
It's only a bar actually.  |
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richard barrett
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« Reply #5 on: 15:32:29, 11-09-2008 » |
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Ahem. Seriously though. "Movement" is a word used generally for "abstract" instrumental music more than anything else, generally characterised by a predominant tempo and tonality. Grove says: Movement. A term for a section, usually self-contained and separated by silence from other sections, within a larger musical work. It originates in the idea of work consisting of sections defined by their difference in tempo or ‘movement’; hence the use of mouvement in French and movimento in Italian to denote tempo and of the Italian term tempo for a movement. The term came into use in English during the 18th century; the Encyclopedia Britannica (1770 edition) uses it in the sense of motion in music, and Burney (General History, 1776) wrote of the ‘first movement’ of a larger work. |
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time_is_now
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« Reply #6 on: 00:25:49, 12-09-2008 » |
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I agree with Ollie. I sort of see Richard's point, but I don't think I'd have any major objection to calling the 'Agnus Dei' of a Mass a 'movement'.
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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Turfan Fragment
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« Reply #7 on: 00:30:19, 12-09-2008 » |
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I agree with Ollie. I sort of see Richard's point, but I don't think I'd have any major objection to calling the 'Agnus Dei' of a Mass a 'movement'.
What are your minor objections? |
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richard barrett
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« Reply #8 on: 00:37:44, 12-09-2008 » |
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I didn't have a point! I just said that the term is "generally" used for instrumental music. The Gorve article cited goes on to mention that the sections of settings of the Mass Ordinary can also be called that.
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time_is_now
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« Reply #9 on: 00:40:12, 12-09-2008 » |
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I agree with Ollie. I sort of see Richard's point, but I don't think I'd have any major objection to calling the 'Agnus Dei' of a Mass a 'movement'.
What are your minor objections? I don't know. Crabs? Ask me tomorrow when I haven't had nuts. |
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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thompson1780
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« Reply #10 on: 01:00:19, 12-09-2008 » |
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How else would you refer to the different parts of a mass?
Movement does it for me.
Good question IRF
Tommo
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Made by Thompson & son, at the Violin & c. the West end of St. Paul's Churchyard, LONDON
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increpatio
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« Reply #11 on: 01:20:27, 12-09-2008 » |
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How else would you refer to the different parts of a mass?
Movement does it for me.
Movement might do it for you, but you still say parts ...  |
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Turfan Fragment
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« Reply #12 on: 02:07:28, 12-09-2008 » |
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I agree with Ollie. I sort of see Richard's point, but I don't think I'd have any major objection to calling the 'Agnus Dei' of a Mass a 'movement'.
What are your minor objections? I don't know. Crabs?  |
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #13 on: 12:06:02, 12-09-2008 » |
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"movement" also works for me, but I've similarly no objection to "sections" (of a liturgical work etc)
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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IgnorantRockFan
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« Reply #14 on: 12:19:30, 12-09-2008 » |
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I have now read the full Grove article Richard referred to and am much more enlightened. (However I see there are still points to debate... so thanks for everybody's answers, even where they have just added confusion ) Incidentally: I have access to Grove online, using my library card (an excellent scheme which I commend to everybody who hasn't tried it). A brief perusal had left me thinking it was nothing but composer biographies, so thanks to Richard for prompting me to take a closer look. |
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Allegro, ma non tanto
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