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Author Topic: Questions left hanging when the cultural vandals close topics on the BBC Radio 3  (Read 1040 times)
Bryn
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« on: 10:39:28, 05-03-2007 »

O.K., for starters, t-p asked about Walton's viola, and 'cello concertos. These are two very different works, though both have a connection with his friend Paul Hindemith. The Viola Concerto, the first of Walton's concertos for string instrument ,  was written for Lionel Tertis (at the suggestion of quack medicine man, musical comedian and some time conductor, Thomas Beecham) in 1929. However, Tertis wanted nothing to do with it, so Paul Hindemith stepped in to give the first performance. It as a considerable success and what do you know, Tertis later took it up. Walton fully revised the orchestration of the viola concerto in the early 1960s.

The 'Cello concerto of 1957 was written for, and first performed and recorded by Gregor Piatigorsky. Here the Hindemith connection is more tentative, in that Hindemith's own 'cello concerto of 1940 was the source of the theme used by Walton for his "Variations on a Theme by Hindemith". That Charles Hazlewood do so little background research on the 'cello concerto's place in 20th century music seems a pretty poor show to me.

There are more modern recordings of the 'cello concerto, but do try to get to hear the original 1957 recording by Piatigorsky. the Boston Symphony Orchestra, and Charles Munch.
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smittims
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« Reply #1 on: 11:02:51, 05-03-2007 »

Thanks,Bryn.I agree the old RCA recording has a unique authority, and is ofcourse  a truly 'period performance', though Walton's own record with Piatigosky on BBC Legensds is ineterestingly different,as is his interpretation of the Hindemith variations on the same disc.

The fine and historically -important series of recordings Walton made with the Philharmonia Orchestra was,I understand, largely Walter Legge's idea,stemming,it is said,from his resentment that so much Britten was being recorded by Decca . It is further 'said' that this resentment stemmed from Legge's homophobia. He also tended to avoid Tippett's music  after discovering T.was gay. If this is true it is sad, I think,to allow such prejudices to intervene,after Legge had made some pioneering recordings of T's music.
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Bryn
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« Reply #2 on: 11:16:16, 05-03-2007 »

Thanks smittims, I had somehow missed out on the BBC Legends issue with Walton conducting, and Fournier straddling the 'cello. Have now rectified the omission by ordering it through Amazon marketplace.
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #3 on: 11:33:30, 05-03-2007 »

Typical Bryn, another fence-sitting thread title.

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Bryn
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« Reply #4 on: 12:00:14, 05-03-2007 »

I will have to learn to keep my title below about 72 characters. The original actually read "Questions left hanging when the cultural vandals close topics on the BBC Radio 3 message boards." Tell it like what it is , innit?

I was thinking about that 1930s 'cello concerto Opus 58 of Prokofiev's again, and an old series of Radio 3 broadcasts of Prokofiev works which were reworked came to mind. Among the programmes were a pair including the opus 58 and opus 125 versions of the material for 'cello and orchestra, both played by a certain, then young, 'cellist by the name of Rohan de Saram, with the BBC Phil. under Edward Downes. I missed the start of the broadcast of the opus 58 concerto and had to paste in the opening from a commercial LP recording by Laszlo Varga (?), Barrington-Coupe style. How's that? Three thread topics for the price of one.

And now, thank you Google:

http://www.cello.org/Newsletter/Articles/varga/varga.htm

and search it for "Prokofiev". A delightful reminiscence.
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #5 on: 12:01:48, 05-03-2007 »

Ah, so it's 72 characters here is it? Wink
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #6 on: 19:17:08, 05-03-2007 »

I liked Walton's concertos (for cello and I only heard parts of viola concerto). They have a modern elements in it and melody with more traditional harmonies. Of course one must listen to this works many times to know them well.

This was the weakest programme in Discovery series. Also it was not explained in schedule what pieces are played. I could not understand why they were playing Prokofiev's concerto. (I still don't).
Also I don't understand what is a connection between Prokofiev op. 58. Was he revising it when he died into op. 125, that was finished by Kabalevsky and Rostropovich? Why did he do that?
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464 metres
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« Reply #7 on: 19:54:07, 05-03-2007 »

Like T-P, I was slightly bemused by the programme.  Can anyone explain to me what was the relevance of the Prokofiev piece which was played at the end?  The only connection I could hear was that a cello and an orchestra were involved!

To my ears, whenever I listen to the concerto, the third movement contains passages which seem to be heavily influenced by Hindemith.  Yesterday, there was no mention of this at all.  Am I alone in perceiving this influence?
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thompson1780
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« Reply #8 on: 22:17:07, 05-03-2007 »

That's bizarre.  Replies 1-6 have 84 characters in the title, but 464 metres' reply No.7 has an extra 3 or 4.

No silly games here yet then....

Tommo
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Made by Thompson & son, at the Violin & c. the West end of St. Paul's Churchyard, LONDON
Bryn
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« Reply #9 on: 22:21:57, 05-03-2007 »

464, you are by no means alone. Walton and Hindemith were not only very good friends, they were musically very close. It used to be said by some that Walton was the English Hindemith, though others considered Hidemith to be the German Walton. ;-)

I agree, the programme was very poorly researched and presented. I will listen again to the introduction to the first movement of the Concertino which Prokofiev was working on when he died. I can't quite see its relevance either. By the way, a rather more idomatic fleshing out has been done since the Rostropovich/Kabelevsky effort. There is a Chandos CD which has both that and the unbowdlerized score of the opus 58 'cello concerto.

http://www.chandos.net/details06.asp?CNumber=CHAN%209890
« Last Edit: 18:54:30, 07-03-2007 by Bryn » Logged
464 metres
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« Reply #10 on: 18:04:31, 07-03-2007 »

Bryn - I have noticed the influence of Hindemith on Walton , but not the other way round.   Must listen to more Hindemith.

I've located the recording I made of the programme on a DVD, and listened again to the 'explanation' for the inclusion of the Prokofiev Concertino.  The link that was made was the fact that both works begin with an ostinato phrase.  Apart from that, I can hear nothing in common.  It smacks of desperation, trying to fill the hour. 

Thanks for the info re. the Prokofiev CD.
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time_is_now
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« Reply #11 on: 21:20:47, 09-03-2007 »

The fine and historically -important series of recordings Walton made with the Philharmonia Orchestra was,I understand, largely Walter Legge's idea,stemming,it is said,from his resentment that so much Britten was being recorded by Decca . It is further 'said' that this resentment stemmed from Legge's homophobia. He also tended to avoid Tippett's music  after discovering T.was gay. If this is true it is sad, I think,to allow such prejudices to intervene,after Legge had made some pioneering recordings of T's music.
Well, I think Walton wasn't exactly pro-gay himself. Funnily enough, Walton also hadn't realised at first that Tippett was gay, and (IIRC from the letters) tried to get Tippett 'on side' by inviting him to lunch to talk about how to 'get the queers out of Covent Garden'!
« Last Edit: 21:22:19, 09-03-2007 by time_is_now » Logged

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thompson1780
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« Reply #12 on: 23:27:20, 09-03-2007 »

Blimey!  Wouldn't have minded being a fly on the wall at that luncheon.  What happened?

Tommo
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