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Tam Pollard
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« Reply #15 on: 23:42:42, 11-02-2007 » |
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Rob,
For whatever reason, the Tennstedt set didn't really grab me all that much the first time round (and I have been meaning to spend some time revisiting it in depth for ages, since when I went back to the 6th I enjoyed more the second time). However, there is an awful lot I like about his 8th. The trouble is that my criteria for a good 8th (and these are probably very personal and a little wacky), is that the way the work makes sense to me is that Mahler is showing off just what a sonic landscape he can achieve with these absurdly sized forces. In this respect it's possibly the only work where I place a really high premium on sound quality - and it's in this respect alone that Tennstedt misses off my short list. But, as I say, I know plenty who love it (and for the most part I do hear why).
Opilec,
I only have Walter's 1945 account with the NYPO and I'm afraid I don't get on with it at all. I find the opening movement a little tame and find the finale a little disjointed. Actually, the finest 4th I've ever heard was from the BPO when the visited the Edinburgh festival with Rattle this summer. Far finer than his CD issue with the CBSO - it was unlike any reading I've ever heard before with a lightness of touch and a beauty that was really something special - the beauty in the finale bars was remarkable (even if the singer wasn't quite my ideal voice). I am really hoping he rerecords it. The other 4th I eagerly await is a download from Mackerras and the Philharmonia as I have always thought he would make an interesting 4th.
Perhaps inevitably, there are plenty of gaps in my listening though (I don't really know Barbirolli's contribution, for example). A lot of the list is also coloured by recordings that introduced me to the work - the Rattle 5th being a prime example. I actually find it a slightly unbalanced reading - the opening movements being so fine that the final three never quite seem to measure up. Mackerras is much better balanced (as is Bernstein, though his long view, magical as it is, is probably not for all tastes). And yet the Rattle remains high in my affections for largely sentimental reasons. Similar things could be said about Sinopoli.
p.s. have just been comparing the Makropulos overtures - and ENO comes up trumps - much more lyrical, much more drama to the pauses. Perhaps it's just that it's whisking me back to the concert hall, but I think I'd take this one to my desert island.
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Rob_G
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« Reply #16 on: 23:48:22, 11-02-2007 » |
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Rob,
For whatever reason, the Tennstedt set didn't really grab me all that much the first time round (and I have been meaning to spend some time revisiting it in depth for ages, since when I went back to the 6th I enjoyed more the second time). However, there is an awful lot I like about his 8th. The trouble is that my criteria for a good 8th (and these are probably very personal and a little wacky), is that the way the work makes sense to me is that Mahler is showing off just what a sonic landscape he can achieve with these absurdly sized forces. In this respect it's possibly the only work where I place a really high premium on sound quality - and it's in this respect alone that Tennstedt misses off my short list. But, as I say, I know plenty who love it (and for the most part I do hear why).
Opilec,
I only have Walter's 1945 account with the NYPO and I'm afraid I don't get on with it at all. I find the opening movement a little tame and find the finale a little disjointed. Actually, the finest 4th I've ever heard was from the BPO when the visited the Edinburgh festival with Rattle this summer. Far finer than his CD issue with the CBSO - it was unlike any reading I've ever heard before with a lightness of touch and a beauty that was really something special - the beauty in the finale bars was remarkable (even if the singer wasn't quite my ideal voice). I am really hoping he rerecords it. The other 4th I eagerly await is a download from Mackerras and the Philharmonia as I have always thought he would make an interesting 4th.
Perhaps inevitably, there are plenty of gaps in my listening though (I don't really know Barbirolli's contribution, for example). A lot of the list is also coloured by recordings that introduced me to the work - the Rattle 5th being a prime example. I actually find it a slightly unbalanced reading - the opening movements being so fine that the final three never quite seem to measure up. Mackerras is much better balanced (as is Bernstein, though his long view, magical as it is, is probably not for all tastes). And yet the Rattle remains high in my affections for largely sentimental reasons. Similar things could be said about Sinopoli.
p.s. have just been comparing the Makropulos overtures - and ENO comes up trumps - much more lyrical, much more drama to the pauses. Perhaps it's just that it's whisking me back to the concert hall, but I think I'd take this one to my desert island.
Yeah Tam, Im not keen on Tennstedt's set either, but the DVD of Mahler 8 which of course is a completely different performance to the CD recording is outstanding I think |
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Tam Pollard
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« Reply #17 on: 23:50:17, 11-02-2007 » |
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Rob, I shall look out for the DVD in that case. (Since I'm always on the look out for a great DVD of the 8th - having never managed to hear it live, the only one I haven't.)
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Tam Pollard
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« Reply #18 on: 23:54:09, 11-02-2007 » |
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Opilec - I really wish you hadn't told me that (these forums just prove so expensive  ). |
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Rob_G
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« Reply #19 on: 23:59:55, 11-02-2007 » |
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mahlerei
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« Reply #20 on: 00:26:17, 12-02-2007 » |
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Bit of a latecomer to this thread but some reponses.
Personally I've found Abbado's later versions of the symphonies a bit erratic, though the 3rd is very fine (in spite of the dry recording). His Lucerne Resurrection is superbly played (as you'd expect from a band of hand-picked players) but it never quite gets off the ground for me. In fact, every time I've heard Abbado in the 2nd (including the concert hall) I've never felt he has the measure of this piece. In contrast his Mahler 5 (caught on artsworld a few months ago) left me quite shaken with its mix of precision and, at times, its savagery. Not a 5th for the faint hearted.
The Leppard Das Lied is okay but only if you like Baker (and I don't).
My picks (invidious task!) would be:
1. Levine/LSO
2. Mehta/VPO
3. Abbado/VPO
4. Klemperer
5. Abbado/Lucerne (DVD)
6. Boulez/VPO
7. Abbado/Chicago
8. Horenstein/LSO (live, 1958)
9. Abbado/BPO
10. Rattle/Bournemouth
Das Lied: Klemperer
The classic Szell Knaben Wunderhorn; Boulez/VPO lieder with Quasthoff, Urmana & von Otter.
No Lenny in the line up, even though his were among the first Mahlers I ever heard.
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« Last Edit: 00:30:31, 12-02-2007 by mahlerei »
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #21 on: 00:27:39, 12-02-2007 » |
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Mahler Sixes: on no account miss (all together now those who've heard me raving about it before and know what's coming) the live Berlin/Barbirolli one on Testament.
Well, OK, miss it if for you sound quality and precision of ensemble are more important than a unique unforgettable ferocious snarling hideous black beast of a performance which grabs you by the short and curlies from go to whoa.
Have I made myself clear?
And I speak as one who knows a Mahler 6 or two.
The hammers are metallic, by the way. In flagrant contradiction of the score. The Andante is second and in the middle of it he gets so carried away that bit by bit the tempo practically doubles.
There's a live Berlin/Rattle one from 1987 as well in a series over here from the newspaper Die Zeit - I've only heard the Scherzo so far but that's also great. Rattle at his very best. And oh my goodness the hair.
Anyone else here have the Bertini bargain box from Köln on EMI? I didn't know the orchestra here could sound that good. And to be honest since then I don't think it has.
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Il Grande Inquisitor
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« Reply #22 on: 00:32:17, 12-02-2007 » |
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Dan, I haven't caught that Abbado/Lucerne 5th on Artsworld yet...must keep an eye out for it. I did record the 9th with the GMYO which was very good. I don't know if they've shown the Lucerne 7th, which I think Wilf rated some while back.
What do you make of Kubelik's Mahler?
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Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #23 on: 00:33:22, 12-02-2007 » |
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There is absolutely no way I'm going to do the top-recommendation-for-each-symphony thing. That would be so against my way of things with Mahler... My Mahler collection isn't particularly exhaustive but I do have complete sets from Abbado, Boulez, Bernstein, Neumann, Kubelik, Tennstedt, Bertini, Gielen and Rattle. I wouldn't be without any of them. Although Kondrashin and Barbirolli didn't record the whole lot I do have what they did do and it's all amazing in its own way - indeed, yes, speaking of 6s try the Kondrashin if you thought you knew the piece. And oh my god, the Ancerl 9. Sorry. Getting carried away. I'd better stop. About time we had a Mahler thread, by the way...  |
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Tam Pollard
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« Reply #24 on: 00:45:09, 12-02-2007 » |
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Oliver, I do slightly agree with your point about lists (which is part of the reason why mine had two or three for each one, and could easily have had more for some of them).
As far as the Barbirolli 6th goes, I've been meaning to delve into the testament issues of his for some time - how do the others rate?
Dan, I agree about the recent Abbado second (I'd also say similar things about the fourth). However, I disagree about the 3rd. There's a lot I love about it and the first 5 movements are among the finest on disc - unfortunately I don't think he quite has the measure of the finale and for me, it lacks the raw emotion of the best.
Incidentally, on the subject of DVDs - Bernstein's video cycle is well worth looking at. With the VPO (except for the LSO second, one of the highlights, despite the director's desire to film Ely Cathedral rather than the players, and Das Lied with the Israeli Phil) it offers some very fine interpretations and is of particular interest to those like me who didn't see him live. In some ways I prefer the 5th to his final reading (it isn't perhaps so special, but it is easier) and the ninth I prefer to his BPO reading (though sadly I don't think it can be had on CD).
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mahlerei
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« Reply #26 on: 01:25:30, 12-02-2007 » |
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Mark
I will keep an eye on artsworld and flag the Abbado Mahler 5. It was one of those afternoons when I wasn't really in the mood for any music but within minutes that had changed! As for Kubelik it's years since I heard any of his Mahler. I think he recorded some of the symphonies again (this time for Orfeo) but I haven't heard any of those.
Tam
I bought the Bernstein DVDs when they first came out. I agree with you about the fussy camerawork in the 2nd. Generally I found the sound rather disappointing but then my DVD player is not brilliant (I plan to get a Denon 2930 when the price falls).
No one has mentioned Gielen so far. His 8th on Sony comes over very well indeed and I have been tempted by his Hanssler cycle.
On the inexhaustible subject of Resurrections the Ormandy Philadelphis discs (from Japan) are very compelling despite compression in some of the climaxes. And Stokowski's Indian summer recording with the LSO (RCA) is worth hearing too.
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Tam Pollard
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« Reply #27 on: 01:47:41, 12-02-2007 » |
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Dan,
I agree about the Bernstein sound (a little harsh and closed is how I would describe it). Though I recently upgraded my DVD player and found it improved fairly significantly (though still not as clear as on the finest recordings).
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richard barrett
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« Reply #28 on: 11:16:30, 12-02-2007 » |
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Do look up my half-coherent rave about the Maderna Mahler 9 on the "Music before bedtime" thread. If Maderna had lived, he could well have become a Mahler conductor to rank with any so far mentioned in this thread, I think. As it is, we get a glimpse in that live BBC SO performance of Maderna's vision of Mahler. I've never heard anything like it. It makes most other performances sound safe and contrived in comparison.
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George Garnett
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« Reply #29 on: 20:11:25, 12-02-2007 » |
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I wos there (Everybody else <yawn><yawn>). I remember it as electrifying, and not what I was expecting at all, but it has also stuck in the memory, despite best attempts to forget these things, that we were rather a shuffly and noisy audience. Goodness knows why. Does that come across in the recording or have the engineers worked their magic? Maderna's own Quadrivium in the first half (but not included on the recording I see  |
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