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roslynmuse
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« Reply #46 on: 21:01:12, 13-02-2007 » |
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Re Rattle in Mahler 6; I remember hearing him do it with the National Youth Orchestra in 84 in Liverpool then at the Proms - a staggering achievement and a great interpretation. There have been several references on here to the ordering of the middle movements but I am going to stick my neck out and say I prefer the Scherzo second, simply because after the emotional pounding of the 1st mt and its hardwon optimistic conclusion, it seems more psychologically convincing to be thrown into more (and similar) emotional pounding - albeit in 3 rather than 4 time. And for me the Finale emerges more effectively out of the Andante than the Scherzo.
Did anyone hear the Mitropoulos 1st on CD Masters a few weeks ago? That was another "clean out your ears (and preconceptions)" performance...
More lively debate to follow, I hope!
Oh, and finally, Colin and David Matthews' orchestrations of Mahler's early songs - I've enjoyed what I have heard of these with Jill Gomez and John Carewe (Rattle's teacher!) conducting.
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tapiola
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« Reply #47 on: 21:13:37, 13-02-2007 » |
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Hi Mahlerei
I do indeed mean the Hanssler no.8. I very much agree that the Sony is very impressive in that respect.
Don't get me wrong, the Hanssler is still very much worth listening too, but I wouldn't like ti to be my ONLY version (so anyone investing in the complete set might like to make a couple of individual additions....).
The Resurrection is very good indeed. Excellent sound and the playing is pretty good too. It's a very dramatic interpretation. Do try the 3rd, 6th and 7th if you get a chance. Marvellous!
Nick
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mahlerei
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« Reply #48 on: 22:20:49, 13-02-2007 » |
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Nick
You have really whetted my appetite now! If the Resurrection lives up to expectations I will go for the whole set.
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Tam Pollard
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« Reply #49 on: 23:28:56, 13-02-2007 » |
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Haven't had a chance to spin the Barbirolli 6th yet, but the Klemperer/Ferrier/Concertgebouw 2nd is really quite extraordinary (so long as one doesn't mind putting up with the slightly imperect mono sound complete with vinyl-like crackle). Out as part of Decca's "Critics' Choice" series, I can't really recommend it highly enough.
Doesn't feel as rushed as timings suggest (and at 72 minutes it must be about the shortest account on disc). Indeed, I did question whether it was perhaps cut, although I note his EMI recording is only a little longer (still, I may have to have another listen with the score open). Anyone able to comment on how the two recordings compare (doubtless there is better sound in the studio, but of course, there can be no Ferrier).
regards, Tam
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roslynmuse
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« Reply #50 on: 23:41:06, 13-02-2007 » |
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The Klemperer/ Ferrier is not cut, just extraordinarily exciting! And I don't think anyone compares to Ferrier in Urlicht, even if the German doesn't sound quite German 50 years on - the honesty and communication moves me more than I can say.
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Tam Pollard
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« Reply #51 on: 23:52:52, 13-02-2007 » |
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Completely agree about Ferrier in the Urlicht (one of my favourite movements). I think her voice captures a sadness in this sort of Mahler that moves me like nothing else - similarly her wonderful Kindertotenlieder with Walter and the Vienna Phil.
On listening, it didn't sound like it had been cut, it was just the track times that gave me pause for thought. What I find interesting though, is that it doesn't feel rushed. Extraordinarily exciting, as you say, but that's different.
regards, Tam
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aaron cassidy
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« Reply #52 on: 06:01:19, 14-02-2007 » |
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I'm sidestepping the actual topic by a hair, but ... Uri Caine's Urlicht/Primal Light is, in places, more Mahler than Mahler. Quite spectacular and rather bizarre. And most certainly worth a listen.
(I'm quite fond of Caine's Diabelli Variations, too, as long as I'm off topic.)
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tapiola
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« Reply #53 on: 21:22:24, 14-02-2007 » |
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Completely agree about Ferrier in the Urlicht (one of my favourite movements). I think her voice captures a sadness in this sort of Mahler that moves me like nothing else - similarly her wonderful Kindertotenlieder with Walter and the Vienna Phil.
On listening, it didn't sound like it had been cut, it was just the track times that gave me pause for thought. What I find interesting though, is that it doesn't feel rushed. Extraordinarily exciting, as you say, but that's different.
regards, Tam
I really must try to hear some Ferrier in Mahler, but at the same time I worry about recording quality (shame on me!). Mahler's music just cries out for excellent sound recording, so how do the versions that you mention here stand up? I have to say that I love the Baker/Barbirolli song cylcles (Ruckert Lieder, Kindertotenlieder etc) on EMI Great Recordings of the Century. Anyone else a fan? The Schwarzkopf Wunderhorn disc floats my boat too. Will Ferrier outdo these marvellous versions for me? Nick |
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #54 on: 21:37:30, 14-02-2007 » |
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The one Ferrier recording that every Mahlerian should hear is Das Lied von der Erde under Bruno Walter and now that it's absurdly cheap there's no excuse not to. It might not even be to your taste but I do think it's something you have to have heard. I don't know if the recordings of the Rückert-Lieder and the Kindertotenlieder are quite as essential but you may as well hear those too! It's not as though she recorded a Fischer-Dieskavian amount. I love the Baker/Barbirolli recording of the song-cycles but there's a dreadful stuff-up in Kindertotenlieder. The bell that's required at a few crucial moments is in F rather than in D.  As one of the songs relies on a D major/minor ambiguity that's maintained until the very end it's a horrible error. Did no one spot it? Shame!  |
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tapiola
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« Reply #55 on: 21:42:32, 14-02-2007 » |
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I love the Baker/Barbirolli recording of the song-cycles but there's a dreadful stuff-up in Kindertotenlieder. The bell that's required at a few crucial moments is in F rather than in D. As one of the songs relies on a D major/minor ambiguity that's maintained until the very end it's a horrible error. Did no one spot it? Shame! Blimey! I must admit that I didn't spot that error! I know the song cylces FAR less well than I know the symphonies, and this just highlights the fact that the little I do know is pretty superficial. Quick, where's the disc. Must..... Play..... More..... I will take a look at that Das Lied. Isn't there a mastering of it on Naxos? My work is a subscriber to the Naxos site so I'll go and have a listen..... Thanks for the recommendation. Are you also a fan of Male voice versions of Kindertotenlieder? The Bernstein/Hampson collaboration is worth hearing! Nick |
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mahlerei
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« Reply #56 on: 21:47:29, 14-02-2007 » |
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Nick
I'm not sure Ferrier will float your boat (mine's still stuck on the sand bar). Ferrier (and to a lesser extent Baker) always remind me of a somewhat old fashioned style of singing. In Ferrier's case the expressive overload is just too much for me and in Mahler Ludwig and others are far preferable.
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #57 on: 21:50:35, 14-02-2007 » |
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I see most Mahler songs as being written with a male voice in mind in the sense that it's most often a male narrator. Sometimes that works in performances better than other times - in Kindertotenlieder the male voice in concert is extremely hard to bring out against the orchestra because of the range it's in, even though the texts are absolutely from the father's point of view. (I believe Mahler always had a male singer perform those songs in concert - even a tenor on one occasion in New York.)
I have the Bernstein/Hampson; the Böhm/Fischer-Dieskau does a little bit more for me, I confess. But unlike Mahler I don't mind hearing a mezzo in those songs - Otter for Boulez is wonderful, and Baker is sublime apart from that damn glockenspiel...
Have you heard Fischer-Dieskau in the 'contralto' songs of Das Lied von der Erde? Also very special indeed.
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tapiola
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« Reply #58 on: 21:54:22, 14-02-2007 » |
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Ah Now
I really do love Ludwig in this music too. Her versions of a number of the songs that come attached to Karajan's 6th on DGG are quite wonderful (at least to these untrained ears!), but as I said in my previous post Kindertotenlieder etc represent the Mahler that I know LEAST well.
Now, of course, I'm feely pretty fired up and I'll go and investigate the songs further. I've spent a lot of time getting to know the symphonies, so the time has come to re-listen to the various versions of the songs that I have. I think Ludwig gets first look in when I go to bed this evening....
Thanks for the inspiration
Nick
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"...and woodsprites in the gloom weave magic secrets..."
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tapiola
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« Reply #59 on: 21:57:13, 14-02-2007 » |
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I see most Mahler songs as being written with a male voice in mind in the sense that it's most often a male narrator. Sometimes that works in performances better than other times - in Kindertotenlieder the male voice in concert is extremely hard to bring out against the orchestra because of the range it's in, even though the texts are absolutely from the father's point of view. (I believe Mahler always had a male singer perform those songs in concert - even a tenor on one occasion in New York.)
I have the Bernstein/Hampson; the Böhm/Fischer-Dieskau does a little bit more for me, I confess. But unlike Mahler I don't mind hearing a mezzo in those songs - Otter for Boulez is wonderful, and Baker is sublime apart from that damn glockenspiel...
Have you heard Fischer-Dieskau in the 'contralto' songs of Das Lied von der Erde? Also very special indeed.
Hi Oliver I have the Bernstein version of Das Lied, so yes I have indeed heard Fischer-D so these songs and yes they are wonderful. The atmosphere captured in that particular performance is quite extraordinary. Mahler can often sound supernatural, but Das Lied seems to create that impression for me more than any of his numbered symphonies. Nick |
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