The Radio 3 Boards Forum from myforum365.com
16:20:40, 01-12-2008 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Whilst we happily welcome all genuine applications to our forum, there may be times when we need to suspend registration temporarily, for example when suffering attacks of spam.
 If you want to join us but find that the temporary suspension has been activated, please try again later.
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  

Pages: 1 ... 38 39 [40] 41 42 ... 50
  Print  
Author Topic: The Pedantry Thread  (Read 14586 times)
Ruby2
*****
Gender: Female
Posts: 1033


There's no place like home


« Reply #585 on: 16:00:06, 29-05-2008 »

There are OTHER pedantry threads? I thought we were the pioneers.  Cry
Well, it's less hardcore and focussed on mispronunciations rather than usage (and riddled with people typing "pronounciation").  Unfortunately it's also full of people ranting about things that aren't actually mistakes. Take the opening post: a woman complaining about people who pronounce "Forte" as "fortay" saying that it's not, it's pronounced "fort."  So it's not up to the quality of this one at all.  Wink
Logged

"Two wrongs don't make a right.  But three rights do make a left." - Rohan Candappa
time_is_now
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 4653



« Reply #586 on: 19:55:34, 29-05-2008 »

Take the opening post: a woman complaining about people who pronounce "Forte" as "fortay" saying that it's not, it's pronounced "fort."
She's obviously been brushing up on her pc-set theory.
Logged

The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
Baz
Guest
« Reply #587 on: 20:06:29, 29-05-2008 »

Take the opening post: a woman complaining about people who pronounce "Forte" as "fortay" saying that it's not, it's pronounced "fort."
She's obviously been brushing up on her pc-set theory.

Quote
    How about straightening us out on the use and meaning of "forte" and "fort"?

The use and meaning of forte and fort are pretty simple. It's the use and meaning of forte and forte that cause problems.

We have in English three words that came to us from the same ultimate source by different routes. The word fort, which means 'a location occupied by troops and surrounded by defensive works' or more broadly 'any permanent army post' or figuratively 'any strong position that one defends', comes from Middle French and is derived from Latin fortis 'strong'. Fort is pronounced the way you think it is and nothing about the word is complicated.

There are two different (but etymologically related) words forte. One is a musical term, meaning 'loud; with force' or in other parts of speech 'loudly' and 'a loud passage', all of which are contrasted with piano. This word, which is pronounced FOR-tay, is from Italian, ultimately from the same Latin fortis mentioned above.

The other forte is from French fort, the same source as the fort meaning 'defensive military location' we just discussed. The French word is fort, masculine, not forte; the -e is a false feminine ending, by analogy with such words as morale and also by confusion with the Italian forte. Its original meaning is 'the part of a sword or foil blade between the hilt and the middle, stronger than the foible', but the common sense is 'one's strong point; an ability or role in which one excels; specialty'.

The pronunciation of forte 'strong point' is a subject of much debate. The most common pronunciation--by far--in America is FOR-tay, the same as the Italian musical term. Conservative usage writers usually insist that this pronunciation is wrong, and only the pronunciation FORT (identical to the word fort 'defensive military location') is acceptable. The rationale is that the French word forte should be pronounced like fort in English; people who pronounce is FOR-tay are either confusing it with the Italian musical term or are assuming that it's spelled forté, which would be pronounced FOR-tay. (In fact, the word is occasionally found in print in the forté spelling, confirming that people do make that mistake.)

There are several problems with this argument. First, the French word is simply not forte, it is fort, so the forte spelling is wrong from the start. Second, the correct French word fort is pronounced FOR, without a "t." Thus, anyone claiming that the FORT pronunciation is correct because of any connection with French is simply wrong. Another factor is that French words can be Anglicized however we see fit--Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of English Usage points out that the punctuation mark (') is pronounced uh-PAHS-tro-fee in English, even though it "should" be pronounced ah-pahs-TROPH, since it's from French. Finally, there's the point that the FOR-tay pronunciation is so common that most people now have never heard of the FORT pronunciation and will think it's wrong.

None of this, of course, makes FOR-tay a correct pronunciation; it comes from a mistake of one kind or another. But there is no pronunciation of forte 'strong point' that is etymologically acceptable, so it comes down to a question of choosing which error you want to go with. FORT is favored by the more conservative, but is much less familiar; FOR-tay is far more common but is thought to be wrong by people who bother expressing opinions on such matters. The choice is yours.

http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=19971114

 Huh Huh Huh
Logged
George Garnett
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 3855



« Reply #588 on: 20:31:21, 29-05-2008 »

Since the clip is not a complete performance it is unceratin exactly how long it takes him.

Unceratin A technique of violin playing, introduced by Jascha Heifetz, in which neither the fingernails nor the toenails are used. (See also rhinoceros horn or cor anglais.)
Logged
Baz
Guest
« Reply #589 on: 21:00:46, 29-05-2008 »

Since the clip is not a complete performance it is unceratin exactly how long it takes him.

Unceratin A technique of violin playing, introduced by Jascha Heifetz, in which neither the fingernails nor the toenails are used. (See also rhinoceros horn or cor anglais.)

This is the Pedantry Thread George - so allow me the pedantic delight of pointing you to the Glossary thread!  Grin Grin
Logged
George Garnett
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 3855



« Reply #590 on: 21:27:15, 29-05-2008 »

But doesn't Pedantry mean "of, or relating to, toenails"? As in "Pedantry Thread", that which is used for flossing between the toes? 
Logged
Baz
Guest
« Reply #591 on: 21:31:03, 29-05-2008 »

But doesn't Pedantry mean "of, or relating to, toenails"? As in "Pedantry Thread", that which is used for flossing between the toes? 

That is a remark of unceratin dexterity! Well done George. Grin Grin Grin
Logged
Ruby2
*****
Gender: Female
Posts: 1033


There's no place like home


« Reply #592 on: 09:43:22, 30-05-2008 »

Take the opening post: a woman complaining about people who pronounce "Forte" as "fortay" saying that it's not, it's pronounced "fort."
She's obviously been brushing up on her pc-set theory.

Quote
    How about straightening us out on the use and meaning of "forte" and "fort"?

http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=19971114

 Huh Huh Huh
Gosh.  I had the same feeling about the french pronunciation issue ("for") but I can't say I'd considered it in that much detail!  Maybe I'll be sneaky and go back and post this on the other board.  That'll fox 'em. Grin

(Maybe not...)
Logged

"Two wrongs don't make a right.  But three rights do make a left." - Rohan Candappa
John W
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 3644


« Reply #593 on: 09:36:23, 31-05-2008 »

Me and my wife

The most unwelcome grammar ever seen on here bbm, you need help
Logged
Sydney Grew
Guest
« Reply #594 on: 11:09:10, 31-05-2008 »

We are reminded - with a feeling of great affection - of the distinguished contribution Rosalyn made to the extraordinary revival of Bach's music during the early-to-mid 29th century.

Das ist lauter Zukunftsmusik!
« Last Edit: 11:29:56, 31-05-2008 by Sydney Grew » Logged
Baz
Guest
« Reply #595 on: 13:46:37, 31-05-2008 »

We are reminded - with a feeling of great affection - of the distinguished contribution Rosalyn made to the extraordinary revival of Bach's music during the early-to-mid 29th century.

Das ist lauter Zukunftsmusik!


Fair enough - I missed that typo, and must now let it stand for posterity!  Cheesy
Logged
George Garnett
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 3855



« Reply #596 on: 10:53:41, 10-06-2008 »

Psssst. Micturition
Logged
Turfan Fragment
*****
Posts: 1330


Formerly known as Chafing Dish


« Reply #597 on: 17:45:48, 10-06-2008 »

Pssss...
Thank you.
Logged

harmonyharmony
*****
Posts: 4080



WWW
« Reply #598 on: 22:24:41, 10-06-2008 »

The late Humphrey Lyttelton profiles Louis Prima, one of the most prolific and accomplished jazz musicians of the twentieth century who is sadly now remembered mostly for his role as a cartoon monkey.

but but but but but but but but but but...
an orangutan isn't a monkey
it's an ape
Logged

'is this all we can do?'
anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965)
http://www.myspace.com/itensemble
harmonyharmony
*****
Posts: 4080



WWW
« Reply #599 on: 22:41:38, 10-06-2008 »

but but but but but but but but...
Kipling doesn't include an orangutan in the book, merely the monkeys of the Bandar Log.
And, source of all knowledge (at least as far as my students seem to think), Wikipedia tells me that the original plan for the Disney screenplay had included a monkey 'king' with no tail... so vestigially, King Louie could be seen as sort of a monkey I suppose if we were being ultra charitable.
Logged

'is this all we can do?'
anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965)
http://www.myspace.com/itensemble
Pages: 1 ... 38 39 [40] 41 42 ... 50
  Print  
 
Jump to: