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Author Topic: Where's my poll?!  (Read 741 times)
Il Grande Inquisitor
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« on: 07:15:59, 11-10-2007 »

Now I could be dreaming, but I'm sure I posted a poll on Sunday about the issue of politics on these boards. Where has it gone? It could have been moved, but, in my message history, all trace of it appears to have been wiped. I have had no notification of the thread's removal containing any reasons why it has been pulled. What sort of censorship is this? I wasn't sure where to post this, as I am unable to post a new topic in the Announcements section, where the poll had appeared.
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increpatio
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« Reply #1 on: 07:57:28, 11-10-2007 »

Now I could be dreaming, but I'm sure I posted a poll on Sunday about the issue of politics on these boards. Where has it gone? It could have been moved, but, in my message history, all trace of it appears to have been wiped. I have had no notification of the thread's removal containing any reasons why it has been pulled. What sort of censorship is this? I wasn't sure where to post this, as I am unable to post a new topic in the Announcements section, where the poll had appeared.

I think someone or other threatened to leave unless the thread was deleted by the morrow (that is to say, this morrow).

But it's early, so that might be a totally subconscious fabrication.
« Last Edit: 08:00:03, 11-10-2007 by increpatio » Logged

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John W
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« Reply #2 on: 08:55:38, 11-10-2007 »

IGI,

It's not censorship, I archived two threads; as incy said there was a complaint about another thread so I moved both.

I've brought it back but it's locked in the viewable section.

I'm with the members who want to move on. I have supportive PMs too but can't put them on view.

John
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thompson1780
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« Reply #3 on: 12:51:37, 11-10-2007 »

I'm with the members who want to move on. I have supportive PMs too but can't put them on view.

Although you can't share the PMs, or indeed who they were sent by, could you at least let us know how many you have had?

And I thought your usual style was to announce what you were going to do before going ahead and doing it - would have been good to know about your archiving in advance.

All this 'How many PMs?'  and 'How many complaints?' is actually really important....

if it is genuinely a lot, I am sure we will be more able to sympathise with what you are doing
if it is only a few, I am more inclined to come and help you with moderation.....  Wink Cheesy

I know its a tough time John, and sorry to pick little holes in your moderation.  I'd like to reiterate that you have done a great job on the whole.  Don't let the pressure of recent events change the efficiency of how you have worked for us as our moderator.

Cheers

Tommo
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John W
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« Reply #4 on: 13:03:20, 11-10-2007 »

tommo,

Supportive PMs and those wanting to 'move on' are trickling in now though not near to the number of people who have joined M&S, and we've only lost three members as resignations.

I wanted the recent actions to be less painful than prolonged arguments as over the last eight months; one disruption rather than every month. It CAN be less painful if we draw a line now and accept that the M&S forum looks like being a success; the members are posting more there than they would have here.

John W
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John W
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« Reply #5 on: 13:16:30, 11-10-2007 »

Oh and thanks tommo, reading your mail again I think I'll add it to the 'supportive' pile  Wink no I won't  Smiley

it's not a 'pile' really, and anyway how many don't really care  Undecided

One thing the admin data does tell me is that 110 members have logged on since the troubles began, that might suggest half of them have joined M&S but I think the new forum has attracted some new people, more success for them anyway.

I really want to draw a line under recent events. PW and I have exchanged messages and our aim is sharing and co-operation.

Other than threads generated during the trouble, I am not archiving any musico-political threads but at least one ex-member had deleted a load of messages which is not helpful for anyone.

John W
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thompson1780
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« Reply #6 on: 13:40:41, 11-10-2007 »

Thanks John.

I agree that deleting threads is not helpful.  Copying across, fine, but it would be good to have a history of discussions at both places, and then diverge from there.  Deleting means that the flow here is bizarre, and discussion will not necessarily make sense.....

Tommo
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Kittybriton
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Thank you for the music ...


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« Reply #7 on: 14:12:15, 11-10-2007 »

And at least one site that I subscribe to elsewhere does not allow deletions at all on the grounds that it allows a member to make unkind or defamatory (or even unlawful) statements, then remove documentary evidence.
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thompson1780
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« Reply #8 on: 14:40:10, 11-10-2007 »

John, and anyone else who can answer.

I am confused.  I want to read the "Politics of Modernism" thread, as I skimmed it last time round.  it seems to have lost a lot of posts.  Why?

Any chance you can reinstate them John - or at least send them to the new place?

Or is it some disaster because a few posts were removed by leaving members and its made lots more disappear?

Thanks

Tommo
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Il Grande Inquisitor
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« Reply #9 on: 16:02:40, 11-10-2007 »

It's not censorship, I archived two threads;

I find this an unsatisfactory response. I did check the Archived section this morning and all that was there was the 'Tchaikovsky Experience' plus the Politics of Modernism thread. I also checked my Profile for the 'Show the last posts of this person' and my posts definitely weren't there. I venture to suggest that the thread was reinstated, locked, after my initial visit today. John, I accept you need to move on from events of the weekend, but this has only added to my doubts about the moderation on this site.

I note the huge Politics thread has entirely disappeared too...
« Last Edit: 16:10:38, 11-10-2007 by Il Grande Inquisitor » Logged

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John W
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« Reply #10 on: 18:47:36, 11-10-2007 »

It's not censorship, I archived two threads;

I find this an unsatisfactory response. I did check the Archived section this morning and all that was there was the 'Tchaikovsky Experience' plus the Politics of Modernism thread. I also checked my Profile for the 'Show the last posts of this person' and my posts definitely weren't there. I venture to suggest that the thread was reinstated, locked, after my initial visit today. John, I accept you need to move on from events of the weekend, but this has only added to my doubts about the moderation on this site.

I note the huge Politics thread has entirely disappeared too...



IGI,

There is a hidden archive full of rubbish and no-reply threads. If you read my message again you'll see I said I brought it back, the poll thread, just for you, your search would not list the messages in hidden archives but it will show the viewable where it is now. I will hide-archive it again later.

The Politics Threads thread with it's 200+ replies is in the hidden archive. Nothing has been deleted, but archiving can help us move on.

Tommo,

I remember when archiving the Politics of... thread that it had 27 replies, don't know if opilec or Ian removed messages but the quoted/original messages from aaron and Daniel seem still there. Anyway if it was locked could messages be deleted? I don't know (I see x Remove on all messages as a mod).

John W
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thompson1780
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« Reply #11 on: 18:55:32, 11-10-2007 »

Thanks john, I may be getting mixed up with the one that is hidden. Sorry to bother you.

Tommo
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Made by Thompson & son, at the Violin & c. the West end of St. Paul's Churchyard, LONDON
John W
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« Reply #12 on: 19:23:22, 11-10-2007 »

Thanks tommo,

I am trying to answer every question to assure members that all that has happened (this end) is that a thread was locked, a poll was archived, a prolonged argument has been archived and it was suggested political intellectuals open their own forum.

The moderation team here try to operate to the best principles and hope our integrity is never questioned.

A subject has been banned, yes, but as OWNERS Michael H and John W accept a responsibilty for what is published here, are not prepared to accept the levels of political opinion that threaten to occur again and again and we have regretably brought in a restriction not based on any democratic vote but based on a desire to retain a popular forum based on fun and music, particularly music heard on Radio 3 and similar radio stations.


John W
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strinasacchi
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« Reply #13 on: 19:37:02, 11-10-2007 »

John -

I'd like to request that you put the "Political Threads" thread in the viewable archives section, rather than hiding it.  Yes, there were many angry words there, but quite a few of us wrote things there that were carefully thought through and raised issues that we may wish to explore further (although not here, obviously).

If you feel there needs to be some "cooling off" time before making that thread viewable again (due to the angrier contributions), I can understand that.  But at some point I would like to be able to see some of the things that were written there.  And some indication from you whether you will consider this would be most welcome.
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John W
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« Reply #14 on: 19:53:48, 11-10-2007 »

OK, I'll put it in the viewable archives for a short period.

It'll be locked as it's clear some members feel that a prolonged dispute is going to slow down any return to a happy forum here.

As you say, maybe some parts of the discussion may be 'unfinished' so some of you can explore the issues, but please not here, and please don't expect me to answer any more questions. IMy response to tommo today should be the last word, please, I was in a bad mood Monday and don't want reminding.

I want us to move forward because I'm very positive about the future of this forum now, as a friendly place to post, and I think the political intellectuals have actually got what they want, with less of an audience.

John W
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