The Radio 3 Boards Forum from myforum365.com
17:07:15, 01-12-2008 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Whilst we happily welcome all genuine applications to our forum, there may be times when we need to suspend registration temporarily, for example when suffering attacks of spam.
 If you want to join us but find that the temporary suspension has been activated, please try again later.
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  

Pages: 1 ... 102 103 [104]
  Print  
Author Topic: Two- to Sixty-second Repertoire Test Discussion  (Read 18090 times)
strinasacchi
*****
Gender: Female
Posts: 864


« Reply #1545 on: 10:33:50, 11-04-2008 »


Of course ambition practically means that if one is to shoulder to the front one must push other people out of the way; one must fight for one's own hand. To succeed at no one's expense is possible only to persons of very high character and genius.


A depressing thought.  But expressed with great clarity.

Another more trivial thought: Baz, do you suppose W5 is short for Winner Number 5?  How many times have the goals been reached so far?

The W5 is a very infrequent bus in my neighbourhoood.  I don't suppose Mr. Grew is referring to that.  Or to a West London postcode.

Logged
martle
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 6685



« Reply #1546 on: 11:01:55, 11-04-2008 »


To succeed at no one's expense is possible only to persons of very high character and genius.


Or to persons who care not a fig for your Earth Points.  Grin

<smug git>

Logged

Green. Always green.
Baz
Guest
« Reply #1547 on: 21:11:32, 11-04-2008 »

Puzzle 502: er . . . Prokofieff's Violin Concerto 2 in G minor.


Er...not quite.

You have to ask "does the solo instrument really sound like a violin?".
Logged
Baz
Guest
« Reply #1548 on: 16:16:00, 13-04-2008 »

Now a clue or two for puzzle 511: the composer - not Vaughan Williams but a well-known Frenchman by the way - described the work - which lasts about twenty-five minutes - as a "lyric scene." Debussy himself confessed that he found it inspiring and had copied some of the procedures. It is a product of the eighteen-eighties.


Well 511 then clearly has to be Berlioz: Cleopatre. (And if it is, I rightly hang my head in shame for having suggested RVW!)
I don't think Berlioz wrote anything in the 1880s. He certainly wrote Cléopatre in 1829 for the Prix de Rome.

Indeed! Thank you Richard - it pays to read the clues PROPERLY!
Logged
Baz
Guest
« Reply #1549 on: 19:21:56, 14-04-2008 »

The wrong note (in this snatch) occurs on beat 2 of bar 18 where the LH inner part plays Bbb instead of Bb - this happens also on the repeat. The remainder of the piece, too, is littered with misreadings that the performer's ear is unable to identify. The performance was not live, but recorded!

It was not Wanda anybody - but the inimitable Leon Berben (the only player I know who has managed to play the entire cycle of 96 movements with at least 96 crackpot interpretations).

Indeed now that the Member points it out it does sound awful. We wonder where the player - we have of course never heard of this Berben - got that from. He does also make silly and unnecessary pauses, and has we agree little feeling for the spirit of the music. But then again would any one who had feeling for the spirit of the music ever try to play it on a harpsichord?

Here or here is another interpretation of the Prelude, also crackpot no doubt but at least it gets the B flat right.

Incidentally the Member has in his last message unknowingly suggested the idea for and even the name of a wonderful new thread which will appear to-morrow!


There is one good reason for using a harpsichord to evince the spirit of this music: that is what J. S. Bach did (and what was good enough for him is certainly good enough for me!). The harpsichord was, at that time, the "normal" keyboard instrument for playing chamber and solo keyboard music in a chamber situation.

Moving from the "crackpot" to the "non-crackpot", we might consider Leonhardt's approach; funnily enough Berben studied with Leonhardt, but it is quite evident that he did not possess the capacity to learn very much that was worthwhile. Here is the way Leonhardt plays this Prelude:

Gustav Leonhardt

The only arguably 'dodgy' thing about it is that he does not repeat the second half - but then that is a pattern he uses throughout his recording (which already runs to 4 CDs). Otherwise, it is sensitive and musical, bringing out all the melody lines, and utilising to the full the wonderful sonorities and resonances of the instrument used. The piece, far from being a 'scramble', remains essentially a plaintive and effective piece. The speed is exactly right when those false relations appear, and they add further to the affect.

Now consider that approach against that of his naughty student!...

Leon Berben

I think the results speak for themselves.

Baz
« Last Edit: 19:43:49, 14-04-2008 by Baz » Logged
Sydney Grew
Guest
« Reply #1550 on: 02:37:20, 15-04-2008 »

Moving from the "crackpot" to the "non-crackpot", we might consider Leonhardt's approach; funnily enough Berben studied with Leonhardt, but it is quite evident that he did not possess the capacity to learn very much that was worthwhile. Here is the way Leonhardt plays this Prelude:

Gustav Leonhardt

The only arguably 'dodgy' thing about it is that he does not repeat the second half - but then that is a pattern he uses throughout his recording (which already runs to 4 CDs). Otherwise, it is sensitive and musical, bringing out all the melody lines, and utilising to the full the wonderful sonorities and resonances of the instrument used. The piece, far from being a 'scramble', remains essentially a plaintive and effective piece. [...]

While agreeing with Member Iron that Mr. Leonhardt's is vastly better than the performance of the deluded Dutchman we are nevertheless unable to consider it faultless or faithful; a number of its imperfections strike one at once. Specifically at the beginning: there is too much delay or hesitation, a rubato let us charitably say, on the third note in the right hand (the G-E chord), whereas the sheer musicality of the exposition of this theme calls for an absolutely strict rhythm - an equality of beats that as the music progresses will enable all the various inner thematic relationships to appear of themselves; a simple-minded and routine rubato "interpretation" distorts or destroys this process by giving undue emphasis to one aspect or relationship over others, whereas it were better to allow the music to speak for itself. When a performer that is with his hesitations and "expressiveness" starts suggesting "Listen to this . . . and now listen to this" we simply feel he is being condescending supercilious and overfamiliar. "Leave it alone!" we cry, "Let us work it out for ourselves!" Then the note immediately following, the low C in the bass, is sounded far too lightly, whereas the bass should here be the driver of the whole process and this C should be at least as loud as the first note of the work (the F).

And another word from Tovey here may not be out of place. "Bars 4 to 8 show at once that this is not a slow movement," he writes, "nor is there anything else in the course of the Prelude to indicate any restraint on a moderate Allegretto tempo."
Logged
Baz
Guest
« Reply #1551 on: 08:54:53, 15-04-2008 »

I have replied to Mr Grew at http://r3ok.myforum365.com/index.php?topic=2877.msg107020#msg107020

Baz
Logged
George Garnett
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 3855



« Reply #1552 on: 11:22:00, 15-04-2008 »

Since we do not know Mr. Thompson's beautiful 517 and 518 ...

Nor we. They are completely unknown to us but rather beautiful in their own way they are. We have a suspicion that they may be the work of composers whom we have decided on little grounds other than prejudice are 'not for us'. Among the joys of Mr Grew's Quiz is not it that such prejudices often can be lifted from our trammelled minds!

We have no idea at all but fearing no longer the jeers of the crowd at our folly wonder whether Poser 517 might be the work of the Englishman Mr Finzi or perhaps the Holborn man Mr Coleridge-Taylor?
« Last Edit: 11:29:27, 15-04-2008 by George Garnett » Logged
martle
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 6685



« Reply #1553 on: 11:26:10, 15-04-2008 »

Mr Garnett, we believe unless our ears deceive us 517 to be a clarinet quintet, a fact which would immediately and utterly refute your suggestion on the grounds that Finzi never wrote such a thing! However, Sir Arthur Bliss didWink
Logged

Green. Always green.
George Garnett
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 3855



« Reply #1554 on: 11:36:24, 15-04-2008 »

We are grateful to Member Martle for his rebuke. We were foolishly under the impression that Mr Finzi had composed a Clarinette Quintette but shall from this day forever recall the sting we have received if ever such a supposition should enter our minds again and shall repel it upon an instant as the work of a Cunning Deceiver.
« Last Edit: 11:40:57, 15-04-2008 by George Garnett » Logged
thompson1780
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 3615



« Reply #1555 on: 12:21:10, 18-04-2008 »

Here are two more, to keep Mr. Thompson's company. First a strange but in a way good and certainly different forty-minute Czech symphony for continuous soprano with orchestra: here or here. And next a sextet by a Frenchman, who seems to be attempting to out-Paganini Paganini: here or here.


Does this represent giving clues before 10 hours have elapsed?  Does this mean Member Grew is inadvertantly preventing other members from achieving 800 points?

Should 75 points be deducted?

I shall not sleep tonight if I do not hear answers......

Tommo

Logged

Made by Thompson & son, at the Violin & c. the West end of St. Paul's Churchyard, LONDON
Baz
Guest
« Reply #1556 on: 13:42:16, 18-04-2008 »

...and those unusual sounds come from the second movement.


Ah - isn't that sweet?

Baz  Smiley
Logged
Sydney Grew
Guest
« Reply #1557 on: 01:37:37, 19-04-2008 »

Does this represent giving clues before 10 hours have elapsed?

Think of it as a kick start over a lowered barrier Mr. T. Incidentally we have just now changed the Rules again so that puzzles may remain outstanding for three days (seventy-two hours) rather than two. And remember Members you may now set up to ten puzzles simultaneously!

(. . . er . . . did we mean "flying start"? . . .)
« Last Edit: 01:43:53, 19-04-2008 by Sydney Grew » Logged
Pages: 1 ... 102 103 [104]
  Print  
 
Jump to: