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Author Topic: The Awkward Thread  (Read 782 times)
martle
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« Reply #30 on: 09:04:33, 07-09-2008 »

Martle will perhaps know the story of a certain travel writer and former music publisher who commented to one of her own composers after a premiere: 'Not one of your best pieces, is it, Gerald?' (The piece in question is called Dead March, and I think she was wrong.)

I didn't know that particular story, tinners, but it sounds all too familiar. Very similar to something she said to me in similar circumstances, in fact!

By the way, I'd count you as one of those '4/5' people who I would trust for an honest and direct opinion (whenever you felt it appropriate to express one).  Wink
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harmonyharmony
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« Reply #31 on: 10:58:53, 07-09-2008 »

Through our performance class we try to teach students how to express their opinions about their peers' performances. These involves feedback almost immediately after a performance and so is quite sensitive. No-one wants to upset anyone else. It's really difficult to steer them in the right direction between criticising for the sake of criticising and bland platitudes. It's interesting to see that, in certain circumstances, the class find one good thing to say and stick to it, ignoring all the negatives. There are very rare cases where this is the best policy, for example when it is unclear if the student will improve (that's probably really unfair of me, but there are maybe two students this year that I felt fell into this category - they were just as bad after 12 weeks' individual teaching as they were before and just failed to pick up anything that anyone suggested about their playing), but in those other cases I wanted to shake them.

In terms of composers, this was a topic of discussion among a few of us at Darmstadt. I don't like to hear platitudes but I also don't want a litany of what didn't work. At the performance of Lovesongs this summer, quartertone came up to me and told me that he'd enjoyed the piece but told me about a specific passage that he didn't think worked and then he left it at that. That was perfect for me. After a performance I don't want an in-depth analysis of the piece but it struck me that it was a genuine assessment of what he thought about it.
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'is this all we can do?'
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #32 on: 20:40:21, 14-09-2008 »

Here's a little Awkwardness I get from time to time...  I wondered if I was alone in it?

Do you ever find that when you invite people you know to performances,  that they regard it as though they are doing you an enormous favour by condescending to come along?

More particularly, on the day of the show, they wait until the final 3 hours before the performance (ie when you are most likely to be doing some final rehearsal) to call you with the following (real, not-made-up) questions:

# where is the concert hall?  could you send me a .pdf map of the area?  where is the parking?  why isn't the parking free?

# what is the show about?  (15 mins before it starts...)

# can I bring my Aunt Val?  would she like it?

# hello, this is her Aunt Val.  You don't me, but...   now, where is the concert hall? (etc, revert to top)

# actually I can't come but I haven't seen you for ages and felt like a chat

# (4 mins before sold-out concert) you know we said we'd definitely come, so please save us the best 10 seats?  Well, actually we can't come  (the cat's been sick/it's the anniversary of the Cadiz uprising/we've lost our house-keys/etc).

Is it very uncharitable to begrudge the time and affected pleasure of receiving these calls?

Behind my concerns that I might be a curmudgeonly crusty lies my own approach to Invites - that it's a ticket that's cost money, and not everyone has got in free...  so I find the concert-hall under my own initiative (even if it's bloody "Orchestrion" in the middle of nowhere),  arrive early,  and usually bring some flowers for whoever has been nice enough to invite me.   But perhaps I've borrowed Hoffmann's rose-tinted specs without realising?

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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #33 on: 20:59:11, 14-09-2008 »

You are lucky, Reiner, that they come or call.
My students are usually too busy. With such big families there is always some  one who is sick, some one who is getting married or there is a Christening.
I have to say that usually enough people turn up.
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #34 on: 21:26:05, 14-09-2008 »

Do you ever find that when you invite people you know to performances,  that they regard it as though they are doing you an enormous favour by condescending to come along?

Of course, especially in Australia... Wink

Even when they're lovely people. Of course they then tend not to be the ones who have much idea about the whole musician business. "So what will you do when you finish with the music, then?"
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brassbandmaestro
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« Reply #35 on: 04:32:13, 15-09-2008 »

These people who ae awkward, I would not invite them next time. Simpls as that.
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strinasacchi
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« Reply #36 on: 19:12:40, 26-10-2008 »

This isn't quite awkward, more confused, but I couldn't find a "Confused Thread" or a "Tying One's Self Up In Knots Over Minutiae Thread"...

I've been gradually preparing parts for the B-minor mass over the past few weeks, seeing as I'm leading it twice next month, haven't done so since I was a student and may not have much time closer to the date.  In a moment of rash exuberance (ie I was slightly tipsy) I marked in an unorthodox bowing for the Gratias agimus that I thought would suit the words better than the usual.  But looking at it now I find myself faced with all sorts of questions.  Is it actually a better bowing?  Maybe in some ways.  But since it's not completely obvious that it's better, should I revert to the usual kind of bowing?  Maybe.  Why am I reluctant to do what's normal?  Do I want to court controversy for its own sake in order to prove some kind of point?  What kind of point?  Am I being insufferably arrogant in imposing a weird bowing on my colleagues?  Or do I imagine that I may gain some kind of respect for having - and sticking with - an unorthodox opinion?  Am I so insecure that I think I need to resort to these kinds of tricks to gain respect?  But it's not actually a trick, is it?  I really do think it's a better bowing in some ways - or do I?

Basically I've cracked open the score ready to do some work, and found myself suddenly faced with loads of self-doubt and self-loathing.  Questioning my intelligence, my integrity, my motives...  And all because of something that really doesn't matter much anyway.

aaargh!

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harmonyharmony
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« Reply #37 on: 19:21:56, 26-10-2008 »

Strina - have you got enough time to put it down for the evening? I find that when I work myself up like that it's just good to leave it alone and go and do something else. It never looks as bad later on. I find I solve compositional problems that have had me on the verge of scrapping the piece, when I'm in the shower.
Actually I had one of those moments today. I had tried to get some extra work done last night and ended up finding the whole premise of the piece slightly ridiculous, and I left it out on the table. Worked out the solution in the shower. Happens to me a lot.
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'is this all we can do?'
anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965)
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martle
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« Reply #38 on: 19:25:06, 26-10-2008 »

strina

1) What's wrong with the idea that it's an experiment? Trying something out - maybe or maybe not successfully.
2) Have you broken any 'rules'? Surely not!
3) You thought (and still seem to think) that the idea had merit. How will you know for sure until you hear it?
4) Can't you change the bowing back in rehearsal if it patently doesn't work?
5) It's only a flipping bowing, for crying out loud!
6) Have a glass of wine.

 Smiley
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Turfan Fragment
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« Reply #39 on: 19:25:36, 26-10-2008 »

I guess it depends on the bowing. Is it really really unusual? Will it require a lot of rehearsal?

Remember, you're the Leader, and what you say is for the sake of practicality to be taken as law. When they lead the B minor Mass, they can do it their own way. You can tell them I said that!  Wink

Don't fret (no place for that in violin playing anyway!)
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strinasacchi
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« Reply #40 on: 19:34:02, 26-10-2008 »

It was a glass of wine that got me in the bind in the first place!  And yes, it's only a flipping bowing, I know...  It's not at all a difficult bowing, it's just not in accordance with the usual "rules" of baroque playing.  It's upside-down, at least for a while, and that's the kind of thing that can (but not necessarily) really really annoy an HIP string player.

I suppose I'm a bit nervous because it looks like there are going to be a lot of really good and well-established players in these gigs, people who haven't seen me as a leader before - and I want to make a good, confident impression without being completely boring either...  But the more I think about it and deliberately try to do things for the effect they have rather than because it's what I genuinely want, the more I'll probably come over as a complete tosser.  So I should relax and go with what feels more right, but be prepared to change it if necessary.

Right, time to clear my head with some dinnner.  Dinner with a glass of wine.

Thanks all three of you!   Kiss

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oliver sudden
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« Reply #41 on: 19:35:33, 26-10-2008 »

Now what I'd do (trying to imagine an analogous situation... maybe if I were conducting something and had to send out beating patterns, say) is do it at the first rehearsal, see if it works and if it doesn't say "sorry, that's a crêpe idea, don't know what I was thinking, do this instead". Thus demonstrating that although you're creative you know when to junk an idea rather than push it through to the bitter end.

Prost!

(Sorry, events have overtaken this one. Never mind.)
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thompson1780
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« Reply #42 on: 19:39:59, 26-10-2008 »

...it's just not in accordance with the usual "rules" of baroque playing.  It's upside-down, at least for a while, and that's the kind of thing that can (but not necessarily) really really annoy an HIP string player.

Ah, my local orchestra must be a HIP band at heart then.... Wink

Strina,

Ollie has given one of my suggestions already.

The other is a slight variation:  Get to the rehearsal, play it, and if it works you are a genious.  If it doesn't then ask the wand waver how he really wanted that section.  He or she will say something, and then you can say "Oh, is that how you want it. Right, we need to change the bowing"

Works every time

Tommo
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David_Underdown
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« Reply #43 on: 16:43:10, 31-10-2008 »

Strina, I can let you know what one of the conductors wants the singers to do with it if that helps?
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David
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« Reply #44 on: 18:42:41, 31-10-2008 »

Some people are just born awkward. Wink
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