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Author Topic: The Grumpy Old Rant Room  (Read 150226 times)
trained-pianist
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« Reply #3030 on: 09:24:41, 21-09-2007 »

Hello Mary Chambers. It is good to be in grumpy room from the point of view that after difficulties come improvement. Of course life is unpredictable.
I found some solace lately from composer of the week series. I listened to Respighi and now to Sibelius program. They had their share of misfortunes.
Yesterday I learnt that Sibelius's wife got even sick because of financial worries. She had to grow vegetables in her garden because they did not have enough money and were in debt. Somehow they overcame desease and worries and lived  to an old age. The most important thing is not to take things too badly. I wish I could post in my room with big letters as it is only good in theory.
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Mary Chambers
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« Reply #3031 on: 16:53:57, 22-09-2007 »

I am trying not to be depressed or cross. Not getting very far, I'm afraid.

Now - I think this is Grumpy Rant, but it could be Pedantry.

When did a "station" become a "train station"?
When did "fill in" (forms) become "fill out"?
When did people start writing "erm" instead of "um"?
When did "clever" turn into "smart"?

All these things, and many more I can't think of at the moment, irritate me every day.




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time_is_now
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« Reply #3032 on: 17:07:56, 22-09-2007 »

When did a "station" become a "train station"?
I had an English teacher at school who always insisted 'train station' was wrong, and should be 'railway station'. I never asked her what she thought a bus stop should be called. Roll Eyes (A 'road stop', maybe?)

I do think 'station stop' is very silly, albeit accurate (it's true that not all stations are stops, and not all stops are stations ...).

Quote
When did "clever" turn into "smart"?
Did it? I think the day someone calls me 'too smart for his own good' for a change, my mum will be very proud of me! Undecided

Quote
When did people start writing "erm" instead of "um"?
Erm ... I didn't know 'um' had preceded 'erm'; I thought they were just alternatives. If pushed, I'd have said 'um' was the American one (reminds me of the way they write 'err' as 'uh', which I think is horrible!).


My own pet hate: 'onto'. A journal I've written for which is old-fashioned enough to have corrected all my '-ise' and '-isations' to '-ize' and '-ization' also corrected my 'on to' to 'onto', which I think is a nasty modern invention. (See what I mean about house styles: they can be so irrational, and almost always contain at least one thing you object to unless you've invented them yourself!)

Don't ask me why I approve of 'into' but not 'onto', though: I can't answer that one.
« Last Edit: 17:09:38, 22-09-2007 by time_is_now » Logged

The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
Ian Pace
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« Reply #3033 on: 17:11:37, 22-09-2007 »

What always feels weird to me is when I'm writing, in British English, and referring to something (say the word 'centre' or 'favourite') but also including some quoted text from an American writer which has the same words in with the different spellings. Always then looks on the page as if somehow I'm trying to 'correct' those alternative spellings.
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
martle
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« Reply #3034 on: 17:13:59, 22-09-2007 »

'Smart' and 'fill out' are American English, Mary. I think we've started to use them here regularly only in the last ten years or so.
Mostly, I'm fine with these transatlantic alternatives. But one I simply cannot stand is, when asking for food in a cafe, or a drink in a pub, 'Can I get a...'. This is now 100% universal amongst students, and almost anyone under the age of 30 it seems. I'll bet tinners doesn't say it though.  Roll Eyes
« Last Edit: 17:18:17, 22-09-2007 by martle » Logged

Green. Always green.
time_is_now
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« Reply #3035 on: 17:15:54, 22-09-2007 »

What always feels weird to me is when I'm writing, in British English, and referring to something (say the word 'centre' or 'favourite') but also including some quoted text from an American writer which has the same words in with the different spellings. Always then looks on the page as if somehow I'm trying to 'correct' those alternative spellings.
That's a very awkward situation, Ian, and it's bothered me often!

I assume you mean when you quote a passage from a book/article with US spellings, and then happen to use some of the same words (re-spelt) in your own text.

The other, similar situation is if you're referring in your own text to a place or organisation like the World Trade Center. In that case, I believe the correct thing is to retain the (as it were 'patented') spelling used indigenously, as I did in my last sentence.
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
Bryn
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« Reply #3036 on: 17:18:02, 22-09-2007 »

t_i_n ... Wink
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time_is_now
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« Reply #3037 on: 17:18:34, 22-09-2007 »

Mostly, I'm fine with these transatlantic alternatives. But one I simply cannot stand is, when asking for food in a cafe, or a drink in a pub, 'Can I get a...'. This is now 100% universal amongst students, and almost anyone under the age of 25 it seems. I'll bet tinners doesn't say it though.  Roll Eyes
This may shock you, M, but I'm not quite under 25!!

PS: '100% universal'?!? What sort of ugly transatlantic diction was that supposed to be? (Or were you being 'ironic'? Wink)
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
martle
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« Reply #3038 on: 17:21:01, 22-09-2007 »

Aaargh. I withdraw the '100%' bit. And I meant 30, not 25, now corrected - just forgot to revise the post!  Tongue
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Mary Chambers
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« Reply #3039 on: 17:26:36, 22-09-2007 »

'Smart' and 'fill out' are American English, Mary. I think we've started to use them here regularly only in the last ten years or so.
Mostly, I'm fine with these transatlantic alternatives. But one I simply cannot stand is, when asking for food in a cafe, or a drink in a pub, 'Can I get a...'. This is now 100% universal amongst students, and almost anyone under the age of 30 it seems. I'll bet tinners doesn't say it though.  Roll Eyes

I know they are American English, but that doesn't help at all!

T-i-n's comment on "station" is altogether too logical and sensible for me. I say "station" (never "railway station"), but I have never given "bus stop" a thought. This isn't about what makes sense - it's about Prejudice  Wink Grin .
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #3040 on: 17:46:05, 22-09-2007 »

To lower the level of the conversation a little, I wonder about the increasing prevalence of the American 'ass' over the more jovial British 'arse'?
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
George Garnett
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« Reply #3041 on: 17:51:57, 22-09-2007 »

Hmmm. Erm and um.

I'd say they are different words signifying slightly different things rather than different spellings of the same word.

'Erm' is for use about others as in 'Eeerrrm, yeees, well just possibly but I don't think you're right myself. Perhaps I could gently point out that I think you are confusing x with y there."

'Um' is for use about oneself as in 'Um, oh dear, I got that one wrong didn't I? Silly me!" or, even more simply, as in 'Um, I've forgotten what I was going to say next.'

Performatively, though, they have a similar purpose which, broadly speaking, amounts to 'Please don't hit me or poke me with sharp sticks'.  

Hmmm.

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George Garnett
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« Reply #3042 on: 18:05:56, 22-09-2007 »

To lower the level of the conversation a little, I wonder about the increasing prevalence of the American 'ass' over the more jovial British 'arse'?

Different mental images?

An American 'ass' (one's own or another's) is primarily the recipient of external actions, usually (but not invariably) unpleasant or painful, such as kicking, shifting or indeed 'whupping'.

A British 'arse', on the other hand (as it were), is a comedic object entire unto itself, the comedy stemming from its function. It is an agent in its own right as much as a target area or recipient of outside intervention.

An 'arse' is necessarily cloven. An 'ass' need not be for certain of its purposes.
« Last Edit: 18:17:07, 22-09-2007 by George Garnett » Logged
martle
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« Reply #3043 on: 18:13:54, 22-09-2007 »

GOSH!
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #3044 on: 18:20:19, 22-09-2007 »

But one can also 'get your arse into gear', or 'move your arse'. Not sure about 'whupping' it, though. When someone says 'they're going to have your arse' it has, er, rather different connotations from 'they're going to have your ass'.
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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