Anty x 6,

 

Well, the jollity of earlier posts tonight has at least taken my mind off a dreadful matter that's been going on, that I did want to share with people here (none of you would know any of the individuals concerned, so I'm not worried on that front). A very very close friend, a woman in the SW (just a friend) has been extremely seriously ill over the last few years, with leukemia. She's been on and off chemotherapy numerous times, and had the 'nearly all clear' on multiple occasions, only for further complications to be discovered, requiring further treatment. Combined with this, she's had recurrent panic attacks leading to serious breathing problems, requiring her to be placed on oxygen. Now, things which cause psychological distress tend to bring these on. As I say, she's an extremely close friend, with whom I have shared a great number of highly personal matters (as she has with me, including some earlier traumatic incidents which I like to think I've helped in enabling her to mentally overcome and seek advice upon), and I know that the one thing that really helps is to talk to her 'normally', about this, that and everything (not least political matters about which she and I share a lot of common sentiments) rather than dwelling on her personal and physical situation (other friends of hers try to be very sympathetic in that respect, but unwittingly seem to reinforce the situation). Over the last few weeks, her situation has been quite critical, requiring a new intensified course of chemo. It's all extremely upsetting, and I'm very very worried about someone I care about very much.

But there are more complications which have made this all much worse. Without wanting to go into too many details, she's a married woman who has led 'another life' for many years (mostly staying together with husband because the kids would be devastated). Here it all gets complicated: she has been involved in various ways with a lesbian couple who live in the Midlands; the only way that they or I can find out about her situation when she's been rushed to hospital (as has happened on various occasions) is through one intermediary local friend of hers who knows a little, though not that much. They are naturally as worried as I am. Over the course of last year, both my friend and I started chatting online to a 20-something woman, who initially seemed quite nice, fun and 'sorted' (I'll just say that all these people are involved in the type of 'scene' that I am, I don't want to elaborate further on that). At one point I'd intended to meet with this younger woman, but wouldn't do so nowadays, both because of a firm committment to the woman I'm with and about to move in with, and also for the other reasons I'm about to mention. I'll call this younger woman S, and also her best friend K. Anyhow, S has some serious issues, that none of us knew about, to do with her own mother and aunt - her father left her mother for her aunt (both of who S adored) when S was young, and she was utterly devastated by this, apparently. And it seems now that my friend (the first one mentioned, I'll call her M; the lesbian couple will be A and B) became seen by S as a type of surrogate mother, towards whom she could both feel a certain bond but also vent her deep-seated hatreds. It started with S saying to M that it would be better if she simply got on and died, because I, and A and B, had no need for her any more (total nonsense, nor is it about 'need'). And she did this deviously, using some twisted rationale that seemed somehow vaguely plausible to M when she was at her weakest. Anyhow, after this, S seemed quite paralysed with remorse, and after talking to K in particular (who is a very decent woman unfortunately caught in the middle of all this), S wanted somehow to atone for what she did, in various ways. This occurred, a couple of months ago, through S going, with K, to visit A and B, for certain things as happen in our 'scene' to take place (I'm not going into details, just to say it wasn't anything dangerous, and was fully consensual) - this, with hindsight, was a big mistake (though I didn't think so at the time, and whilst not being involved, when asked advice, I thought it seemed the right thing to do (there had been a smaller scale event involving B in a similar manner earlier, which had been satisfactorily resolved in a way that made everyone happy)). Sorry if this is all a bit cryptic - I don't really want to go into sordid details. And then there would be forgiveness, and so on.

Or so it seemed. All went smoothly, and a new bond came about between K and B as well. After M spoke to S a few weeks later, in an extremely friendly and kind manner (as she had done beforehand when she wasn't in hospital), suddenly S started turning nastier still, and saying similar things to before, but worse. This led to a barrage of texts, e-mails, and phone calls (even after K tried to destroy S's e-mail account, contacts list on her phone, and so on). On one occasion this led M to panic attacks and profound depression, leaving her in a coma (interrupting a radiotherapy session for about a week). And S has been sending messages to me as well (I always ignore them now); a few days ago, she sent a few, then one saying 'He he he - I'm going to phone her'. I didn't know she still had M's number, and rapidly texted M to tell her not to pick up the phone, but it was too late. She started the phone call with 'I was calling to check if you were dead yet', and carried on in that vein. Now M has been back on oxygen, and until late this evening A and I both thought she'd simply 'given up' (that was what we'd heard indirectly) - she is talking now again, thank goodness. But again this comes right in the middle of crucial treatment: S knows all this, and is doing so deliberately to try and induce something. However, the day after that phone call, S had a nervous breakdown and has been admitted to a psychiatric unit. A wants to talk to S's mother, but is concerned about revealing too much about the world that S has got herself involved with.

I'm sure some of you will think that this particular world I'm part of, and the interactions that go on there, are disturbing and suggest unstable people: actually, with the exception of S, all the individuals I've mentioned, including myself, are highly experienced and also extremely well aware of the physical and psychological dangers (A and B are both nurses), and certainly wouldn't do anything lightly. But the need for secrecy in this world makes certain practicalities very difficult - we aren't really in a position to reveal too much that will come out to M's family, nor find out other than when we can contact her or her friend about the precise nature of her situation. I feel utterly terrible for being embroiled in this, and misjudging an extremely disturbed and unstable woman (S). And very very worried about M. Don't really know why I'm posting this, other than simply needing to discuss it safely in some forum (otherwise only my g/f knows). As I say, none of you would know any of the people concerned (none of them have any connection to the music world), so I'm not betraying any information that could be used in an intoward way. I'd really appreciate anyone's thoughts - this is tearing me apart as well. I really found it hard to believe that there could be such levels of malice in someone which would be used to such devastating effect.

I started off trying to say something about how I thought that S didn't sound malicious but more desperately unhappy and lashing out, but I think you already understand that and that both you and M are concerned for her as well, which makes the whole thing even more tricky.

The situation does sound really very complicated but I guess that there is an archetypal situation that many of us will recognise. At some stage I think that M has to prioritise her recovery. She can't be responsible for S and should probably take steps to ensure that if S does want to contact her after recovering from her breakdown, she has to start off doing that in very controlled environments (i.e. public meetings with friends to support both of them, very clear ground rules etc.).
Also make sure that you protect yourself from S if you feel that's necessary.
I would post more but I'm already running late.
Best of luck Ian. It sounds horrible, but I'm glad you felt you could share it with us.

Ian, that's a horrifically messy and difficult situation and I can't pretend for a moment that I'd know 'what to do'. What seems obvious though, as MF says above, is that you're acting with remarkable compassion and humanity in the most painful of circumstances, and with an admirable degree of sensitivity. I'm not sure you can do any more than continue to react to unfolding events in the same way. The very best of luck.

A complex and messy situation indeed. There's probably a case for a Restraining Order against S but, given your friend's circumstances, that would be likely to crank up the stress levels even more at a time when she feels physically and emotionally vulnerable. What is paramount is that she should be able to complete her treatment without having to deal with psychological warfare. You are clearly doing all that you can to support her as a true friend. You couldn't possibly have known that S has some major psychological problems and you shouldn't be blaming yourself for any fallout.

If S was sectioned for admission to a psychiatric unit then she may be there for a while. That, at least, would give your friend the space and peace that she needs.

Many thanks to all of you for your sympathy and extremely valuable advice. Just to add a few details: S was wholly new to the scene before encountering M and I (one reason I feel responsible); she is definitely someone that shouldn't get involved any further in such practices and that anyone else should avoid having anything to do with (she more often takes a dominant role, which is a very big responsibility indeed and not one that anyone should take lightly). Also, I heard from M very late last night (and also from A), it seems that the fact that S has been taken into psychiatric care has been a huge relief. That's what I felt as well and, like M, feel very bad about thinking that, but at least it means she's not likely to stalk M any longer. In terms of strina's point about M needing to let go of caring about S: that's absolutely right, and both A and I have said that to M many times, but if you knew M as a person (one of the most selfless people I've ever known), you'd see how hard that is. She even wrote a letter last week, to be handed to S in the event of her death, saying that she wasn't bitter towards her or anything, and did understand.

In terms of the internet and the BDSM scene: the former is a major source of meetings, etc. (it was much harder in the old days where people had to rely upon contact magazines and the like), but anyone who knows what they are doing will insist on getting to know someone properly in person, or (often best) speaking to others who know them and can act like 'referees' before scening together. In S's case, she and K suddenly jumped in at the deep end by enticing men and women in their town in Kent into doing group scenes, containing relatively heavy scenes, building upon some ideas that M and I had talked to S about (but taking them much further at the outset than either of us would have imagined). That all seems to have gone fine, though S certainly does not have the levels of psychological maturity and empathy (both of which I would say are utterly essential for anyone taking a basically dominant role, whether with male or female subs) required. K is a different matter, and I hope she continues with things and enjoys them. But A in particular feels she made a big mistake in scening with S, especially in the circumstances. Easy to say we all make mistakes, but you can't afford to in this world; all of us know to be more vigilant in the future. The dangers aren't necessarily any greater than with anyone one meets under 'normal' (i.e. non-internet) circumstances, really, though.

You're all right about letting S's doctors know about things, and I think K will do some of that (the rest of us aren't in a position to do so - right at the moment the only contact with S we have is through K). But M's doctors also need to know, and this is the hard bit. Only through P, M's friend who acts as an intermediary, can we do that, and P only knows a smattering (she is close to the family, and would probably communicate things to them). M desperately doesn't want us to do so, and her family really have no understanding whatsoever of what is going on. But if things got out, such as would inevitably be likely to lead to major family ruptures, that might also set her back further. Somehow some of us need a type of 'confidential helpline' to M's doctors; I'm not sure how to engineer it, though.

Last complication: in terms of restraining orders or other legal action, that could also get complicated. The laws on telephone or cyber-stalking are complex, I think (S is doing everything that way), but also the very activities we are involved with inhabit a legal grey area. Causing physical pain to someone else (as most definitely went on between A, B and S, and with which M and I could be considered 'accessories' even though not present) is not absolutely legally sanctioned, I think (I'm not quite sure of the fine details of the law), even when wholly consensual (as it was, and with clear exit means for the person taking the submissive role at any point (what we call safewords)). Especially if someone is in any need of some sort of treatment afterwards. Now, there was certainly no serious physical harm involved (nothing other than some marks that wore off after a couple of weeks) - A is severe, but knows exactly what she's doing safely - but now that S has been admitted to a psychiatric unit, it might be argued that this is somehow connected. If S's mother finds out about this, quite naturally she's likely to be freaked about what sort of things S has got involved with, and might try to turn things legally on all of us. Some people will not or cannot accept that others will enter into forms of activity involving quite intense pain and humiliation wholly consensually, without that implying that they are damaged, and thus being exploited (S is damaged, clearly, but we didn't know that).

I'll just add that S is outwardly someone plenty of people might tend to sympathise with, more than the rest of us: she's young, extremely attractive (quite stunningly so), confident, independent, successful (running her own business at the age of 25). Sort of young woman you might see out on the town on a Saturday evening, and would seem wholly in charge of her own life, without a care in the world. It would be easy for others to imagine that everything was fine with her until she came across some of us (K doesn't think that, by any means, though)

Please don't blame M's husband or family for anything. It is the wrong marriage, for sure, but he is totally in the dark about this, as are her kids; they probably have no idea what is bringing about these sudden panic and breathing attacks, and are really frightened about it all. If I can compare the situation of those inextricably drawn to BDSM practices to that of gay and lesbian people some 50 or more years ago; these things are still highly taboo (and were even more so when M got married over 20 years ago) and subject to a high level of ignorance and prejudice. Many end up in a process of intense self-denial about them, and as such get involved in unhappy and unfulfilling relationships or marriages (just as gay men and women used to do). Media portrayals are generally massively inaccurate, and even when moderately sympathetic (for example in the film Secretary, which is generally regarded quite highly in the scene), always rest upon the notion that this is the expression of some deeper traumas on the part of the practitioner*, which is in no sense universally or even predominantly applicable. One reason I'm reasonably 'out' about it all, and encourage others to do similarly, is because of all the dangers that living a 'closeted' existence poises to so many, especially younger people who don't understand much about something they find utterly compelling. Though that very 'closet' clearly in itself has a buzz to some (as I'm sure it once did, and maybe still does, to some gays and lesbians). But it then involves a substantial network of secret encounters in remote places, sometimes relatively anonymous (which can be a very dangerous thing to do - I have been involved with scening with people I've never met before, but only when organised meticulously through a third party who knows both people well), second lives for those who are married or in relationships, and above all an inability to talk about something which is intrinsic to one's whole being with one's 'normal' friends (many of them find it all disturbing, and don't want to hear, I still encounter this plenty). This situation, which was more acute when M first got involved in things, has been massively to the detriment of her current situation.

* Though Secretary has been a very popular film in particular with young women with comparable interests, it wouldn't be hard to see how, if they believed that the character of Lee was reasonably representative, they might feel far from at ease with themselves for being of a similar persuasion.

Thanks, t-p, and thanks again to all of you for listening and offering thoughts on this - it has been really getting me down, and helps immensely to be able to share it with you. Things are looking a bit better now than they were a day ago, so the situation is more hopeful.