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Author Topic: Haydn: Die Jahrzeiten  (Read 481 times)
Don Basilio
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Era solo un mio sospetto


« on: 21:33:45, 04-04-2008 »

Or The Seasons as Simon Heighes consistenly called it on Buidling a Library last Saturday.  I have just listened to the podcast, and I am feeling dead smug because the version I bought a couple of years ago was his first choice: Rene Jacobs and the Freiburg Barock ensemble.

Charming though it is, I have not listened to it that much, and listening to young Simon I realised why.  (The review was a masterpiece of understated camp in the best traditions of Radio 3 in the old days:  Anthony Rolfe Johnson compared to some younger German tenor -Trevor Howard to Brad Pitt.)

I can cope with the lack of a contralto.

I can cope with the fact it has less plot than To the Lighthouse.

What is insufferable is the appalling smugness of the three characters: we are virtuous and hard working so God is on our side.  If they were C21 Americans they would vote Republican and support the invasion of Iraq.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #1 on: 07:12:49, 05-04-2008 »

What is insufferable is the appalling smugness of the three characters: we are virtuous and hard working so God is on our side.  If they were C21 Americans they would vote Republican and support the invasion of Iraq.

I entirely sympathise with your position, Don B.  I find myself feeling the same in much oratorio of the C18th, and even more so of the C19th.
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
Don Basilio
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Era solo un mio sospetto


« Reply #2 on: 09:31:41, 05-04-2008 »

But I don't feel that with Handel because the figures are in a mythic setting and they don't remotely embody the protestant work ethic.  (I know Haydn was catholic, but the oratorios are perfectly ecumenical.)

Perhaps that explains why my Handel oratorio is Semele.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #3 on: 10:11:26, 05-04-2008 »

Have you seen the Sellars staged version of THEODORA (Glyndebourne), which Ollie has strongly recommended in the past?   It raises a very potent connection to your mention of C21st Americans and military intervention.  I thought it was a decent stab at trying to stage the piece, and the new mise-en-scene works tolerably well...  however, it's music of a contemplatory nature, and I didn't feel it worked on stage successfully (because of the absence of dramatic action in the libretto).  Action could have been introduced that wasn't in the libretto of course (producers frequently have recourse to this, to spice things up a bit) but it would have been a falsification of the original work, and Sellars deserves commendation for his restraint here.  The other gripe I have about it is that the piece itself is concerned with the persecution of believers by the heathen... whereas within the conceit of the production, it should have been the faux-Religious Right as the persecutors, rather than the persecuted.

[My own feeling on this is that with 50 genuine operas at our disposal, we ought to stage those - rather than staging non-stage works.  The MATTHEW PASSION staged at Glyndebourne last season was critically panned across the board, I believe.]
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
Don Basilio
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Era solo un mio sospetto


« Reply #4 on: 11:16:59, 05-04-2008 »

Staging The Creation would be impossible and staging The Seasons would be the ultimate tedium - one long opening chorus with no plot.

I do not have access to a DVD player.  But I have earmarked Sellar's Theodora for when I do.  (It is not my favourite.  Athalia could have far more possibilities and I have seen decent stagings of Samson and Semele.)

At the risk of not sounding cool, I am sure the Bach Matthew Passion would be even more effective on occasions, as I know from experience, cutting not only scenery and costumes, but arias, chorales and recitative accompaniment and spoken in church involving the whole congregation.  Bach doesn't add anything to it for me.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #5 on: 11:27:26, 05-04-2008 »

My own feeling about the PASSIONS is that they're already in the form most effective for them - the medieval mysterium, a communal retelling of the events of Holy Week whose acuity is sharpened by recognising amongst the performers people who are personally known to the congregation who have gathered.  I think attempts to "dramatise" the Passion story only blunt and distance the narrative, and place it in a Star-Wars-style "far away in a distant galaxy many light-years from us" remoteness.  This works against all the intentions of the composer.  The Chorales represent a kind of interaction and involvement that would be called "Promenade Performance" today.  I would not be opposed to a "semi-staged" presentation in which characters entered and left the chancel at appropriate moments, but for myself I'd limit any staging elements to that level only.
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
oliver sudden
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« Reply #6 on: 17:25:55, 08-04-2008 »

Don B, I think you'd probably enjoy the Schütz passions. Admittedly they're not spoken and don't involve the whole congregation. But of arias, chorales and recitative accompaniment they also have none. The language is so restrained (sometimes quite hypnotic) that at the crucial moments all Schütz has to do is add an accidental to the Evangelist's line, give him a couple of slurs or take him a step higher than he's previously been and you have no choice but to stop breathing.



(Don't know if this is the best but it's the one I've been listening to. Lasserre does interpolate some motets at a couple of points but you can programme them out.)

As I've mentioned elsewhere I would very much appreciate hearing the Bach passions performed in a way that leans a little bit more towards the 'contemplatory' that Reiner mentions. I do often feel that the way they're done nowadays (whether staged or not) much too often makes them seem a bit like operas manqués. But judging from the record catalogues I seem to be in a minority of one.
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prawn
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« Reply #7 on: 08:41:03, 15-04-2008 »


What is insufferable is the appalling smugness of the three characters: we are virtuous and hard working so God is on our side.  If they were C21 Americans they would vote Republican and support the invasion of Iraq.

This kind of stuff never appealed to me, but I bought the Jacobs on the strength of the review and have just listened to Spring. I know exactly what you mean, DB. But it's difficult here in the 21st century to understand just how tied to the land and the fluctuations of the seasons most people were in Haydn's time, and that they linked their fortunes with their willingness to work. How much Haydn and his librettist either knew or cared about this is another matter, I suppose... Maybe they imposed their own idealised image of the peasantry.

Delightful music, anyway. Summer tomorrow. Cool
« Last Edit: 08:56:24, 15-04-2008 by prawn » Logged
Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #8 on: 09:28:22, 15-04-2008 »

Very valid point about being tied to the land, Prawn Smiley   I know it's sometimes overstated how far Haydn was an indentured servant, but nevertheless he was one of a number of fellow servants amongst whom were many who worked on the land...   it can't ever have been so far away from him.
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
prawn
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« Reply #9 on: 09:35:51, 18-04-2008 »

I have just listened to the podcast, and I am feeling dead smug because the version I bought a couple of years ago was his first choice: Rene Jacobs and the Freiburg Barock ensemble.

I have just listened to the entire work and am feeling dead happy that I bought the recommended version. It is an absolute joy until the last couple of arias, when the librettist goes all sanctimonious and holy about "never mind that we're miserable and freezing our b**** off here, we will soon be entering the gates of Heaven, where it is eternal spring" or words to that effect.  Roll Eyes  But each of the Seasons has been a delight, and I will go back to them, possibly incorporating each one onto a themed compilation or such like.
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