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The Radio 3 Boards > The Radio 3 Boards > General Radio 3 Discussion > What's a "musical snob"?
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Author Topic: What's a "musical snob"?  (Read 5048 times)
Ian_Lawson
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« Reply #240 on: 17:43:24, 03-07-2008 »
I discovered Burt Bacharach in the early 70s when I bought a series of albums of his songs arranged and sometimes sung by the man himself (I've still got them).  I was continually amazed at how I knew most of the songs. Until then, like most people, I was never really aware of the composer/producer behind songs. It is still the case that there is a general assumption that it is always the singer’s song -  something  I find quite annoying.
« Last Edit: 17:47:48, 03-07-2008 by Ian_Lawson » Logged
richard barrett
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« Reply #241 on: 18:11:39, 03-07-2008 »
Bacharach's arrangements are also an important factor in the memorability of his songs (which is as it should be of course), and to my mind haven't been equalled since for sophistication and originality in the genre he was working in (and aren't likely to be now that the art of the arranger is hardly required any longer) - from the bassoon in "Magic Moments" onwards each one has a particular feature which sticks in the mind along with the melody and lyrics.

Although I am bound to say that it took Richard Carpenter to rescue "Close To You" from relative obscurity and give it the arrangement it deserved.
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #242 on: 18:19:01, 03-07-2008 »
...and for that matter I've always found his rhythmic suppleness very striking. Snob that I am.  Roll Eyes
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burning dog
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« Reply #243 on: 18:22:35, 03-07-2008 »
Quote from: HtoHe on 15:37:02, 03-07-2008
Quote from: burning dog on 13:10:41, 03-07-2008
Caroline Coon's  knowledege the black pop of the day = zero?**

It was her confabulation rather than her knowledge that I was commenting on, bd.  I don't want to be too hard on CC - we all confabulate to a certain extent; and in a way someone like me is fortunate in that no-one will treat my confabulations as authoritative - I'm more likely to put my comments on a forum like this and be gently reminded of the facts rather than air them on Radio 4 where nobody will challenge them!  She wouldn't have needed any knowledge of black pop to have heard of the Sex-O-Lettes in 1975 - they had a big hit in the mainstream charts with Get Dancin, which is probably why I've heard of them.


Quote from: burning dog on 13:10:41, 03-07-2008
I dint think they were called sex pistols in 75 did she say that? I spose it was the violent connotations of pistols in tandem with sex that was controversial.

She didn't, as far as I remember, mention the date.  I looked that up when confirming my initial suspicion that Mr Tex was with the Sex-O-Lettes some time before the Sex Pistols were, well, the Sex Pistols.  According to Wiki "The band's first gig as the Sex Pistols was arranged by Matlock, who was studying at Saint Martins College. The band played at the school on 6 November 1975"  CC (if it was her being interviewed today, I haven't checked that I heard right) said she went to the band's second gig straight after being informed of its existence.  

I'd have bet the Pistols didnt exist until early76. CC (or whoever) has it over me there!

 I really like Bacarach, The carpenters singing Close to you is that one of his? I see RB has just answeredthis

Mcdonalds probably do have "product" that's reasonably "good for you" these days, it's the homogenisation that older people in particlar object to almost instinctively(whatever their political persuasion)  in my experience "That used to be an independent greasy spoon/family reastaurant/ tea rooms... Bah!
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Baz
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« Reply #244 on: 18:23:17, 03-07-2008 »
I once characterised - and I cannot remember which thread it was on - the 'average' pop song (as heard in my local whenever it is open) as being basically an emulation of a bandsaw being worked inside a popcorn factory! I was no doubt thought to be snobbish!

However, I still feel this to be true - perhaps it is all down to the taste of my local landlord? But so much of the NOISE it makes goes (to my ears) something like this:

VOCALS - EEEee--AAAaawww--AAAaaa---EEEeeee...AAAawwww....

INSTRUMENTALS - EEEee--AAAaawww--AAAaaa---EEEeeee...AAAawwww....

PERCUSSIONS - PopPopPopPopPop - BoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoom - PopPopPopPopPop (etc.)

Now I am not trying to make a judgment (as such), but merely an observation.

THIS is just one example of the kind of thing I have in mind - though I must freely admit that the bandsaw is in this instance able to offer an even greater variety of sonic 'effects' than stated above.

Never mind - I suppose it's just ME! But I don't feel in the slightest bit 'snobbish' about any of this (really!).

Baz
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richard barrett
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« Reply #245 on: 18:26:25, 03-07-2008 »
Quote from: Baz on 18:23:17, 03-07-2008
But I don't feel in the slightest bit 'snobbish' about any of this (really!).

You do however look it in that post, if you don't mind me saying.
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martle
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« Reply #246 on: 18:30:19, 03-07-2008 »
Bacharach is only as good as he palpably is because he studied with Milhaud, Martinu and Henry Cowell.

Top that for snobbery.  Wink
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Baz
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« Reply #247 on: 18:32:47, 03-07-2008 »
Quote from: richard barrett on 18:26:25, 03-07-2008
Quote from: Baz on 18:23:17, 03-07-2008
But I don't feel in the slightest bit 'snobbish' about any of this (really!).

You do however look it in that post, if you don't mind me saying.

But HOW Richard? I am only trying - in the absence of an adequate technical vocabulary suitable for the purpose - to illustrate what the piece sounds like to my ears. What 'comes over' as snobbish about that attempt?

Baz Huh
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #248 on: 18:34:02, 03-07-2008 »
Quote from: martle on 18:30:19, 03-07-2008
Bacharach is only as good as he palpably is because he studied with Milhaud, Martinu and Henry Cowell.

Top that for snobbery.  Wink
Well if you can't even be bothered to spell Martinů correctly I don't see on what basis you expect us to take your view of the matter with any seriousness.  Wink
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martle
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« Reply #249 on: 18:35:24, 03-07-2008 »
I guess you just did, Ollsky.
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Green. Always green.
John W
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« Reply #250 on: 18:38:25, 03-07-2008 »
Quote from: Baz on 18:23:17, 03-07-2008
But so much of the NOISE it makes goes (to my ears) something like this:

VOCALS - EEEee--AAAaawww--AAAaaa---EEEeeee...AAAawwww....

INSTRUMENTALS - EEEee--AAAaawww--AAAaaa---EEEeeee...AAAawwww....

PERCUSSIONS - PopPopPopPopPop - BoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoom - PopPopPopPopPop (etc.)


One could imitate much 'new music' and 'world music' with the same onomatopoeia Baz, yeah?


John W
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #251 on: 18:45:10, 03-07-2008 »
Quote from: John W on 18:38:25, 03-07-2008
Quote from: Baz on 18:23:17, 03-07-2008
But so much of the NOISE it makes goes (to my ears) something like this:

VOCALS - EEEee--AAAaawww--AAAaaa---EEEeeee...AAAawwww....

INSTRUMENTALS - EEEee--AAAaawww--AAAaaa---EEEeeee...AAAawwww....

PERCUSSIONS - PopPopPopPopPop - BoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoom - PopPopPopPopPop (etc.)


One could imitate much 'new music' and 'world music' with the same onomatopoeia Baz, yeah?


John W
...or pretty much any genre one hadn't listened to closely enough to appreciate the differentiation within it.

It's the 'they all look alike to me' argument. Doesn't really pack much of a punch, if you don't mind me saying.
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John W
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« Reply #252 on: 18:50:45, 03-07-2008 »
Indeed Ollie, in fact one of my favourite pieces by Ligeti IS (from what I recall) just (or at the start anyway) vocals going Eeeeee (it was appropriately spooky music to accompany the finding of the monolith on the moon) but I'm sure there are other similar pieces by others that I would be very snobbish about Smiley
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #253 on: 18:56:10, 03-07-2008 »
Quote from: John W on 18:50:45, 03-07-2008
Indeed Ollie, in fact one of my favourite pieces by Ligeti IS (from what I recall) just (or at the start anyway) vocals going Eeeeee (it was appropriately spooky music to accompany the finding of the monolith on the moon) but I'm sure there are other similar pieces by others that I would be very snobbish about Smiley
Let's tread warily here perhaps...   Kiss

(Good case in point though I suppose... aren't the voices actually going 'Kyrie / Christe eleison'? Anyone have chapter and verse?)
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martle
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« Reply #254 on: 19:00:29, 03-07-2008 »
Can't find chapter and verse, but I'm certain that's right - the beginning of the Requiem. The film also uses Lux Aeterna, does not it?
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