The Radio 3 Boards Forum from myforum365.com
11:04:55, 03-12-2008 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Whilst we happily welcome all genuine applications to our forum, there may be times when we need to suspend registration temporarily, for example when suffering attacks of spam.
 If you want to join us but find that the temporary suspension has been activated, please try again later.
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  

The Radio 3 Boards > The Radio 3 Boards > General Radio 3 Discussion > What's a "musical snob"?
Pages: 1 ... 14 15 [16] 17 18 ... 24
« previous next »
  Print  
Author Topic: What's a "musical snob"?  (Read 5048 times)
Ian_Lawson
**
Posts: 59
« Reply #225 on: 15:27:23, 03-07-2008 »
Quote from: Ruby2 on 15:07:16, 03-07-2008
...This is why I mentioned SAW, mainly because I perceive it to be low on value. 

That’s fine, but do you think Big Macs are low value because you ‘perceive’ them to be so  - or because you know they are (nutritionally) low value?

If it were the case that (nutritionally) they were of high value (even though you perceive them not to be high some-kind-of value) then surely, because they are 'cheap', they would have another kind of high value in that they could help feed the starving millions.
Logged
Ian Pace
Temporary Restriction
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 4190
« Reply #226 on: 15:33:55, 03-07-2008 »
Quote from: Ian_Lawson on 15:27:23, 03-07-2008
That’s fine, but do you think Big Macs are low value because you ‘perceive’ them to be so  - or because you know they are (nutritionally) low value?

If it were the case that (nutritionally) they were of high value (even though you perceive them not to be high some-kind-of value) then surely, because they are 'cheap', they would have another kind of high value in that they could help feed the starving millions.
The mind boggles.....
Logged
'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
oliver sudden
Admin/Moderator Group
*****
Posts: 6412
« Reply #227 on: 15:35:25, 03-07-2008 »
Quote from: Ian_Lawson on 15:27:23, 03-07-2008
If it were the case that (nutritionally) they were of high value (even though you perceive them not to be high some-kind-of value) then surely, because they are 'cheap', they would have another kind of high value in that they could help feed the starving millions.

That's one of the great conundrums of the capitalist world, isn't it? Is the idea of a Big Mac that's (nutritionally speaking) good for you (I hope we can agree that at the moment they aren't Wink) conceivable? If so, what stops The Scottish Restaurant making Big Macs that are good for you (since the commercial pressures on it to improve the nutritional value of its food are relatively high nowadays)? Would no one buy them? If not why not? Is it indeed impossible to make nutritionally excellent food commercially viable on such a scale?

Plenty of analogies for the music world there...
Logged
Ian Pace
Temporary Restriction
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 4190
« Reply #228 on: 15:36:49, 03-07-2008 »
Quote from: oliver sudden on 14:58:58, 03-07-2008
I think there are plenty of venues for uncommercial popular music (in the sense of at least reasonably competent but done on an amateur basis) - surely every city has a wide selection of clubs hosting groups of every standard?
Well, even if the musicians don't get paid for those gigs, the clubs still have to attract customers who will pay drinks, pay entrance fees (where applicable), etc., and the bands look to get exposure with the prospect of further paid gigs as well. So there is competition of a commercial nature there.
Logged
'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
HtoHe
*****
Posts: 553
« Reply #229 on: 15:37:02, 03-07-2008 »
Quote from: burning dog on 13:10:41, 03-07-2008
Caroline Coon's  knowledege the black pop of the day = zero?**

It was her confabulation rather than her knowledge that I was commenting on, bd.  I don't want to be too hard on CC - we all confabulate to a certain extent; and in a way someone like me is fortunate in that no-one will treat my confabulations as authoritative - I'm more likely to put my comments on a forum like this and be gently reminded of the facts rather than air them on Radio 4 where nobody will challenge them!  She wouldn't have needed any knowledge of black pop to have heard of the Sex-O-Lettes in 1975 - they had a big hit in the mainstream charts with Get Dancin, which is probably why I've heard of them.


Quote from: burning dog on 13:10:41, 03-07-2008
I dint think they were called sex pistols in 75 did she say that? I spose it was the violent connotations of pistols in tandem with sex that was controversial.

She didn't, as far as I remember, mention the date.  I looked that up when confirming my initial suspicion that Mr Tex was with the Sex-O-Lettes some time before the Sex Pistols were, well, the Sex Pistols.  According to Wiki "The band's first gig as the Sex Pistols was arranged by Matlock, who was studying at Saint Martins College. The band played at the school on 6 November 1975"  CC (if it was her being interviewed today, I haven't checked that I heard right) said she went to the band's second gig straight after being informed of its existence.  
Logged
Ruby2
*****
Gender: Female
Posts: 1033


There's no place like home
« Reply #230 on: 15:41:35, 03-07-2008 »
Quote from: Ian Pace on 14:54:17, 03-07-2008
However, shows like that of the late John Peel were a subsidised avenue for less 'commercial' popular music to gain some exposure. Shouldn't forget that Radio 1 is just as  non-commercial a radio station as Radio 3 (I think).
I think John Peel was an exception - most of the shows now have a very limited playlist which is decided by committee and has to be stuck to, at least by the drive time DJs with huge audiences; you don't get the impression that DJs have much, or indeed any freedom.  Chris Moyles expresses frustration about it from time to time.  There are some isolated programmes that showcase more original stuff, but they're hidden away in evening slots.

I'd listen to more radio 1 if it wasn't like chinese water torture hearing the same song over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over...

Quote
That’s fine, but do you think Big Macs are low value because you ‘perceive’ them to be so  - or because you know they are (nutritionally) low value?

If it were the case that (nutritionally) they were of high value (even though you perceive them not to be high some-kind-of value) then surely, because they are 'cheap', they would have another kind of high value in that they could help feed the starving millions.
Undoubtedly it's partly about nutritional characteristics, but I think it goes deeper than that, particularly after all the recent expose[insert acute accent]s on the incredibly unhygienic meat factories that they buy their meat from in America where they're also exploiting illegral immigrants.  

And it's the way they slap the thing together with the lettuce falling out, the bread burned, mayo on one side but not on the other... the other day in KFC I was almost served by someone with a very bad skin condition on their arms and I know it's not their fault but I nearly walked out again - I don't know what was falling off into the burgers.  Shocked

I've forgotten where we're going with this... Huh

All of the bad characteristics are about making the things cheap. The whole thing is fuelled by a desire to make money.

Top chefs want to make money too, but I'm guessing that's not the reason they became a chef, it's because they're passionate about food.  SAW may well have enjoyed what they did, but it was blatantly a production line approach - they freely admit that much.

There, that's at least resembling a relevant point.  Wink
Logged
"Two wrongs don't make a right.  But three rights do make a left." - Rohan Candappa
oliver sudden
Admin/Moderator Group
*****
Posts: 6412
« Reply #231 on: 16:06:24, 03-07-2008 »
Quote from: Ian Pace on 15:36:49, 03-07-2008
Quote from: oliver sudden on 14:58:58, 03-07-2008
I think there are plenty of venues for uncommercial popular music (in the sense of at least reasonably competent but done on an amateur basis) - surely every city has a wide selection of clubs hosting groups of every standard?
Well, even if the musicians don't get paid for those gigs, the clubs still have to attract customers who will pay drinks, pay entrance fees (where applicable), etc., and the bands look to get exposure with the prospect of further paid gigs as well. So there is competition of a commercial nature there.
Yes and no. A classical musician playing the same venue (and there's a lot of it about nowadays) has the same pressures. And at an open mike night a venue has a certain amount of guaranteed turnover just because the groups bring their mates along, so the event attracts the custom. In any case I don't think the requirements are directly commercial beyond the need to entertain, which isn't something you'd call genre-specific Smiley
Logged
Ian_Lawson
**
Posts: 59
« Reply #232 on: 16:09:15, 03-07-2008 »
Quote from: Ruby2 on 15:41:35, 03-07-2008


Top chefs want to make money too, but I'm guessing that's not the reason they became a chef, it's because they're passionate about food.  SAW may well have enjoyed what they did, but it was blatantly a production line approach - they freely admit that much.

I’m sure you’re right about (top) chefs. But I find it even harder to believe that people go into music ‘to make money’ given how hard it is to make money out of music. Don’t be confused by the fact some people do make loads of money -  most don’t. Presumably when SAW started out there was no guarantee that they would succeed.   


BTW the saw ‘production line’ thing was simply a quick turnover  - 2 or 3 days writing and producing a song from scratch (as opposed to fussing over a snare drum sound for 4 weeks) They certainly didn’t stint themselves in terms of recording gear etc. I think they were trying to resurrect the ‘song writers factory’ approach  that used to be so significant in the hey-day of Burt Bacharach - another production-line writer if you want to see it that way.
Logged
oliver sudden
Admin/Moderator Group
*****
Posts: 6412
« Reply #233 on: 16:20:41, 03-07-2008 »
Quote from: Ian_Lawson on 16:09:15, 03-07-2008
But I find it even harder to believe that people go into music ‘to make money’ given how hard it is to make money out of music.

There used to be a music shop in Melbourne with the cheery exhortation painted on the front window: "Secure your future - Become a musician". I laughed louder with every passing year. Although with less humour.  Undecided
Logged
martle
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 6685
« Reply #234 on: 16:42:25, 03-07-2008 »
Quote from: Ian_Lawson on 16:09:15, 03-07-2008
Burt Bacharach - another production-line writer if you want to see it that way.


For the sake of good honest debate, I'll happily put up with reading negative opinions about MacDos, SAW, even Radio 1. But, by god, the line has to be drawn somewhere. Retract, snob!  Cheesy
Logged
Green. Always green.
Ian_Lawson
**
Posts: 59
« Reply #235 on: 16:54:59, 03-07-2008 »
Quote from: martle on 16:42:25, 03-07-2008
Quote from: Ian_Lawson on 16:09:15, 03-07-2008
Burt Bacharach - another production-line writer if you want to see it that way.


For the sake of good honest debate, I'll happily put up with reading negative opinions about MacDos, SAW, even Radio 1. But, by god, the line has to be drawn somewhere. Retract, snob!  Cheesy



What's it all about Martle?
Logged
martle
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 6685
« Reply #236 on: 17:10:05, 03-07-2008 »
Just say a little prayer, Ian.
Logged
Green. Always green.
Ian_Lawson
**
Posts: 59
« Reply #237 on: 17:19:43, 03-07-2008 »
I've got no intention of making it easy on myself.
Logged
richard barrett
*****
Posts: 3123
« Reply #238 on: 17:23:12, 03-07-2008 »
What's new pussycats? - Gosh! I'm away from the Snob Thread for less than 24 hours and find you've all been having Magic Moments in my absence. I just don't know what to do with myself.
Logged
Ian_Lawson
**
Posts: 59
« Reply #239 on: 17:26:43, 03-07-2008 »
Why not just walk on by.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 14 15 [16] 17 18 ... 24
  Print  
« previous next »
 
Jump to: