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Author Topic: Lead 'em by the nose, Leave 'em wanting more!!  (Read 1249 times)
pim_derks
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« Reply #15 on: 08:31:58, 01-03-2007 »

By the way, which recording of DER KAISER were you listening to?  I've only found one recording, the American one, in which the entire thing is (rather badly) translated into English?
In 1994 DECCA issued a recording of Der Kaiser von Atlantis in the Entartere Musik series. The performance was conducted by Lothar Zagrosek. The orchestra was the Gewandhausorchester Leipzig. The singers were Michael Kraus, Franz Mazura, Martin Petzold, Christiane Oelze, the late Walter Berry, Herbert Lipp and Iris Vermillion. The information about Suk is also in the booklet of this CD. There are also three songs on poems by Holderlin on this disc, performed by Iris Vermillion and with Jonathan Alder on the piano. A very fine recording!

By the way, Der Kaiser was premiered in Amsterdam in 1965. Suk also wrote a beautiful serenade for strings, sometimes issued on disc with Dvorak's famous serenade. To be honest, I never heard a boring work by Suk. I noticed only yesterday that the Andante from the Asrael Symphony reminds me a bit of Janacek's Sinfonietta. I heard a lot of interesting musical fragments in that German radio feature I told you about. There's still a lot more to explore in Suk. Smiley
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #16 on: 08:38:38, 01-03-2007 »

Well, Martle did suggest our answers might be different on the morrow, so here's another work which manages a striking opening and a give-me-more conclusion; Panufnik's Sinfonia Sacra.

Both the opening Vision with its simple but effective fanfare figure based on fourths for for four trumpets antiphonally spaced at the points of the compass around the orchestra with their entries arriving one bar earlier each time until they meet in octave unison, and the final noble glory of the Polish national hymn combined with a modified repeat of the first Vision as a crowning descant are as etched into my aural memory as the sound of the sea; what happens in between is not exactly unforgettable, either.

And Karl has the (P)Symphony of Psalms well pinned down too, though I'm tempted to add an extra citation for the preceding extraordinary moments of revolving stillness which to me always suggest the music of the spheres...
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autoharp
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« Reply #17 on: 20:15:26, 01-03-2007 »

I'm rather fond of endings which supply a question mark or are designed to make you feel uneasy at the way things have gone, lateral endings if you like. Many examples from Busoni and Duke Ellington - both notable for presenting unlikely solutions. One of my favourites is the end of the Pijper piano concerto (sounds as though he ran out of manuscript paper). If the examples seem rather arcane, even the last chord of the New World symphony has a suggestion of this.
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SimonSagt!
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« Reply #18 on: 20:49:38, 01-03-2007 »

In a million years I would never understand this, a/harp!  I cannot imagine why!

A while ago there was an organ piece I heard that ended early, by mistake, on youtube - on a V7, of all things. I had to rush to the piano and play the tonic. Wouldn't you have done the same?

bws S-S!
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The Emperor suspected they were right. But he dared not stop and so on he walked, more proudly than ever. And his courtiers behind him held high the train... that wasn't there at all.
reiner_torheit
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« Reply #19 on: 21:12:50, 01-03-2007 »

Quote
If the examples seem rather arcane, even the last chord of the New World symphony has a suggestion of this.

I know exactly what you mean, Autoharp!  At least one of my examples has this - Madam Butterfly.  Puccini's toyed with us in B-minor for at least 2-3 minutes towards the end (from Pinkerton's offstage cries of "Butterfly!"), finally hitting us with that terrifying series of pentatonic orchestral-unison fragments, each one punctuated by a head-blasting B-minor chord supported by heavy percussion...   but then he finally takes us down the B-minor scale at the end, to hit us with a closing chord of...  G-major first-inversion??  (OK, I agree it might be considered a B-minor augmented chord, but it sounds like G-major to me!).

In the old WNO production (which I saw when it was touring in the mid-80s), Sharpless came on with Pinkerton, and grabbed him on this final chord, as though he was about to pummel his face...  it was very effective, and the blackout covered whatever came next... clearly indicating that although we had seen the life of Cio-Cio-San and for us the story was ending, this astounding chord announces "to be continued"....
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pim_derks
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« Reply #20 on: 21:29:14, 01-03-2007 »

reiner_torheit,

In last Wednesday's Afternoon on 3 the Elegie, Op 23 by Josef Suk was played. Unfortunately not the extended version with harmonium. You can listen to it here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/afternoonon3/pip/2p6zx/

 Wink
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reiner_torheit
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« Reply #21 on: 21:44:50, 01-03-2007 »

Thank you most kindly, Pim!  I would certainly have missed it otherwise, and I am enjoying it as I type Smiley  I am interested in pieces with harmonium for practical reasons...  we are planning to perform Schoenberg's chamber-ensemble arrangement of DAS LIED VON DER ERDE later this year, and it would be a pity to miss the rare chances offered by having a harmonium on the stage Smiley
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pim_derks
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« Reply #22 on: 22:21:40, 01-03-2007 »

Thank you most kindly, Pim!  I would certainly have missed it otherwise, and I am enjoying it as I type Smiley  I am interested in pieces with harmonium for practical reasons...  we are planning to perform Schoenberg's chamber-ensemble arrangement of DAS LIED VON DER ERDE later this year, and it would be a pity to miss the rare chances offered by having a harmonium on the stage Smiley

Yes, the harmonium is a wonderful instrument. Only in the Netherlands, it's largely being associated with psalm singing Dutch reformed families on Sunday afternoons. I once met the man who provided the harmonium for the Schoenberg Ensemble of Reinbert de Leeuw.

By the way, I'm very interested in the arrangements of Schoenberg's Privatverein. Do you know the arrangement of Bruckner's Seventh Symphony made by Hanns Eisler?
« Last Edit: 22:24:49, 01-03-2007 by pim_derks » Logged

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reiner_torheit
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« Reply #23 on: 22:27:34, 01-03-2007 »

I think the Harmonium has similar associations with the Reformed and Protestant churches in Britain.  I had a student job playing one for a while in a Unitarian Chapel - sadly it was in desperately poor condition, and only 2 stops were even tolerably in tune.  It was, however, the only kind of organ on which I mastered the use of the pedals  Grin

By the way, there is a gripping performance of the Brahms Piano F-Minor 5tet directly after the Suk :-)

I never realised or imagined that Eisler might have arranged Bruckner! That would be fun to hear, even though Bruckner is a sort of "black hole" for me normally Wink
« Last Edit: 22:29:59, 01-03-2007 by reiner_torheit » Logged

They say travel broadens the mind - but in many cases travel has made the mind not exactly broader, but thicker.
pim_derks
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« Reply #24 on: 22:41:37, 01-03-2007 »

I never realised or imagined that Eisler might have arranged Bruckner! That would be fun to hear, even though Bruckner is a sort of "black hole" for me normally Wink
As a matter of fact, he made the arrangement together with Erwin Stein and Karl Rankl.

http://www.amazon.de/Bearbeitungen-f%C3%BCr-Kammerensemble-Bruckner-Sinfonie/dp/B00005V5OI/ref=sr_1_2/028-1588341-0737332?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1172788509&sr=1-2

Try the scherzo! Wink
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autoharp
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« Reply #25 on: 19:28:33, 02-03-2007 »

Simon, your message 18 astonishes me. How do you get on with the end of Chopin's A minor mazurka op 17 no 4 ?
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SimonSagt!
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« Reply #26 on: 00:04:48, 03-03-2007 »

Simon, your message 18 astonishes me. How do you get on with the end of Chopin's A minor mazurka op 17 no 4 ?

No problem with that, a/h. By the time it ends it's modulated to F anyway, so the F chord is fine by me! Plus it's fading away, so it's rather gently calming, in effect, innit.
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harmonyharmony
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« Reply #27 on: 00:25:58, 03-03-2007 »

I always see the start of this thread's title on the front page: 'Lead 'em by the nose...' and I always add in my head, '... and slap 'em in the face'.
Have I been spending too much time in the Other Place?
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reiner_torheit
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« Reply #28 on: 00:47:15, 03-03-2007 »

Sadly "Bait & Switch" is the modus operandi on TOP now, isn't it? Sad
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They say travel broadens the mind - but in many cases travel has made the mind not exactly broader, but thicker.
autoharp
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« Reply #29 on: 01:19:19, 03-03-2007 »

Simon - So the Chopin modulated to F ? Rather a lots of B naturals about ?
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