Hey, ernani!

Good post - interesting points!

I expect it might depend a bit on where you live and who you hang around with...

Sometimes people have looked askance at me when I've gone on about classical music - generally about Mozart. But you know what? If I've ever had the chance to play them some, most of them seem to get the point. Especially with Mozart's PCs, which are what I play more than anything else myself.

The only guy I've really never been able to convince is a good mate of mine: we are both into heavy rock and metal - and he will listen to classical stuff. But he always eventually comments along the lines of that he doesn't like the sound of all the instruments, but he likes the melodies. Then he usually says that he thinks he would like it much better if it was played on an electric guitar

bws S-S!

S-S,

I'm in a similar situation, always have been. Never got my wife and kids interested enough to go to a classical music event. I've had friends who enjoyed and educated me in classical music but they've always moved on (geographically) and now I'm back in the situation of just nodding aquaintances with local peeople who go and see local semi-pro orchestras. Only forums like this keep me 'talking' about music every day. And my current efforts with quizzes on here is just part of me trying to share music with you all 

Our introduction to classical seems to have been similar though I faired better once I was at Uni (see my message on tommos 'animals' thread posted just last night).



Cheers,

John W

As I see it, ernani, the problem is one of labelling.

Think about it this way: there is no such thing as 'classical music'. There is only music.

Now imagine if others thought that way. No 'this music' or 'that music', just music, some good, some bad, some you like, some you don't, some you don't understand, some that speak to you completely.

If everyone followed this, imagine the range and breadth of music everyone could be exposed to, and how it might develop. For my part, I think it would only lead to greater depth, understanding and exploration not only from listeners but composers. We wouldn't have silly terms like 'crossover', as there would be nothing to cross over from and to.

I have nothing against useful labels: a song, a quartet, whatever. But in more years of listening than I care to remember I cannot determine what earthly use 'classical' music actually serves as a label. I actually think it sounds uneducated, like answering "Oh, the classics" to the question "What books do you like?" Come again? It sounds like a fob off from someone who isn't well-read but wants to be.

No, apart from helping you find the right shelf in a shop, the only function of 'classical' music is to alienate people like your girlfriend and compel others to apologise.

I have a lot of sympathy for Stevo's remarks but they do veer dangerously close to that old catch all phrase "there are only two types of music, good or bad". Which immediately bring in value judgments and some concept of an overall arbiter of what is worthy and what isn't. I won't even attempt to name an accepted historical master to set against a current popular favourite, I'm sure many of us have "guilty pleasures" as far as listening is concerned.

Back to the original point of the thread, I think long term friends and relatives will get a feel for what your personal musical enthusiasms are and hopefully understand. The thing to be dreaded is that casual uninterested question "what type of music do you like ?" If I answer classical, the enquirer too often assumes CFM Most Wanted fare. Jazz is, if anything, even more fraught. Might just about get away with blues but that would represent a very minor part of my listening. Does it matter what impression a casual, uninterested acquaintance might get ? Well, strangely enough it does somehow. Maybe something to do with one's self image in the world ( or insecurity ? )

I don't think that's the case. Doing away with a label like "classical music" doesn't necessarily have a knock-on effect for value judgements of any kind.

That, in fact is the problem as I see it. "Classical music" is meaningless, too broad to mean anything of value, yet it masks all sorts of suppositions (and prejudices). Doing away with it doesn't imply any sort of relativism: you can still compare a with b, and elect not to compare x with y because of their dissimilarities. "Classical music" gives the lie, on the other hand, that x and its category associates is automatically better than all of y and its category associates.

By extension, people are motivated to say things like "I don't like classical music", which summarily dismisses the majority of musical works ever written. It is a silly thing to say, but not because the people saying it are silly, but because the term "classical music" is silly.

pim_derks, I understand you. Sometimes it is easier to talk if you don't know and don't see the person.
Also the quality and knowledge of people here is much better than I can possibly meet here.

ernani,

My school'friends' didn't realy get the classical music thing either, and I got teased a lot or ostracised.  University was better for me, but then I went to work in an office where nearly all my colleagues were there were young people with the musical tastes of most young people in this country......

Whenever conversation got onto music, I'd be deliberatey honest and passionate about what I liked, even when I became aware of the knowing glances between people.  There is something inate in us that makes us want to be accepted by others, and being similar to others is one of the criteria we may have subconsciously for accepting and being accepted by others.  There must be varying degrees for different people, and as it happens I actualy quite like the idea of being different from the herd, so perhaps that's why I was happy to be so open about classical music.

With each time conversation turned that way, bit by bit, I think some people began to understand some of the appeal.  It got to the stage that a heavy metal fan and I had a realy good converstaion in the pub one night about "finding someting new in the music of dead people".  He likes some classical music now.  (although sadly, I have not managed to cultivate an appreciation of rock.)

Now, I'm a bit older, and I think I have reached that comfortable middlish stage of life - people of my generation like loads of different types of music, but I feel there are so many that they are on the whole quite accepting of whatever you like.

Tommo