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King Kennytone
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« Reply #30 on: 16:54:47, 08-01-2008 » |
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martle
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« Reply #31 on: 17:05:07, 08-01-2008 » |
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To you too, KK!  |
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Green. Always green.
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King Kennytone
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« Reply #32 on: 17:09:06, 08-01-2008 » |
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greenfox
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« Reply #33 on: 23:33:44, 08-01-2008 » |
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All will be revealed http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/jazzlibrary/pip/848tx/- not. I think the adulation around Monsieur Braxton is somewhat suspicious. I went through musical-hero worship some years ago, just how many ol' greenfox will not disclose. But it concerned Jean-Jacques Burnel, Joe Strummer, and Paul Weller. Ol' greenfox was reading a jass book yesterday, referring to the "derangement of the senses" pertaining to free jass. Too much of a counter culture vibe, methinks, built not on something constructive and liberating but indeed, on "deranged senses". However, since like Ian Thurmwood (yes, I cruise the R3 jass bored but can't really see the point of posting there), I acknowledge that I have little experience of Monsieur Braxton. Friday man, Friday........be there or be ¬ |
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richard barrett
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« Reply #34 on: 23:54:38, 08-01-2008 » |
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I think the adulation around Monsieur Braxton is somewhat suspicious. I don't know of anyone who treats him with "adulation". I do know a lot of people (like me, in fact) who regard his music exactly as "constructive and liberating." Give it a listen. |
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greenfox
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« Reply #35 on: 00:01:52, 09-01-2008 » |
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I don't know of anyone who treats him with "adulation" I do. There's a few who cruise the R3 board; it makes me suspicious and doubtful. Other than that, I remain open and willing to consider his music. |
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richard barrett
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« Reply #36 on: 00:03:10, 09-01-2008 » |
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I don't know of anyone who treats him with "adulation" I do. There's a few who cruise the R3 board No, I think you'll find those are the people who think it's constructive and liberating. |
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King Kennytone
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« Reply #37 on: 12:54:48, 09-01-2008 » |
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... it is constructive & liberating |
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greenfox
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« Reply #38 on: 13:42:41, 09-01-2008 » |
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They may well think its constructive and liberating Richard Barrett, but what they think is not what I think. He's being considered in very adulatory terms.
I remain open in specific regard to the music itself, though if its like much of the free jazz idiom - cacophonous, discordant, screeching, noise for the sake of noise - I find that about as interesting as walking onto a building site and listening to industrial machinery, as pleasurable as a battered Mars bar which I've never had, and trying to be "constructive" like TS Eliot's poem The Wasteland, but actually writing unformed stuff like this:
I usually turn off Jez on R3 Friday nights, because that's mostly the kind of stuff he plays. And he's only on in the first place, at chez greenfox, because Alyn's come on before him. It will be interesting to see what Alyn makes of AB.
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« Last Edit: 13:44:35, 09-01-2008 by greenfox »
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #39 on: 14:10:14, 09-01-2008 » |
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I had my first battered Mars Bar on New Year's day.
Deeply strange.
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richard barrett
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« Reply #40 on: 15:23:35, 09-01-2008 » |
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if its like much of the free jazz idiom - cacophonous, discordant, screeching, noise for the sake of noise
Ah. So what you're saying is that you have no understanding of this kind of music, as strongly evidenced by your use of non-musical metaphors to describe it, such as building sites and random gibberish, and that therefore you find it suspicious that other people enjoy and admire it. Personally I wouldn't find the description "cacophonous, discordant, screeching, noise of the sake of noise" at all offputting and I might well sometimes use any or all of these words as terms of approbation, although I wouldn't use them to describe Anthony Braxton's music - but perhaps the continuation of this discussion ought to be postponed until you've heard it...? |
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greenfox
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« Reply #41 on: 18:33:55, 09-01-2008 » |
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No, what I said is what I said, and I "understand" it perfectly well - in my terms.
I noted the way this was being addressed (AB has a singular popularity at the R3 board) and stated my feeling about free jazz with which I am familiar and sure, the conversation will no doubt continue after the R3 show which I'm looking forward to: I'll finish what I started re. if it does indeed fit the characteristics of free jazz.
It's just cheap rhetoric to say other people "don't understand", and rather boring with music which one simply likes or doesn't like, and that is that. Random arrangements of letters is not a bad comparison.
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richard barrett
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« Reply #42 on: 18:40:31, 09-01-2008 » |
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I know very well that AB is popular among numbers of posters at the R3 board, including myself as it happens. That could be because people find his music exciting and fulfilling. It's just cheap rhetoric to say other people "don't understand", and rather boring with music which one simply likes or doesn't like, and that is that. Random arrangements of letters is not a bad comparison.
If you understood the music you wouldn't dismiss it in such tired and ignorant terms. If you liked it you'd understand it. |
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time_is_now
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« Reply #43 on: 19:03:31, 09-01-2008 » |
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I'll finish what I started Just by way of a friendly post of course?   In what sense does The Wasteland claim to be 'constructive', by the way? Who are you quoting? The poem, IIRC, professes itself more interested in 'these fragments I have shored against my ruins' ... |
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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greenfox
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« Reply #44 on: 19:24:07, 09-01-2008 » |
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OK, I hadn't intended to pursue this but since you insist, I shall oblige, by responding to this and your general manner in the same way you are addressing me: If you understood the music you wouldn't dismiss it in such tired and ignorant terms. If you liked it you'd understand it. I repeat, I understand it perfectly well, and your defensive arrogance is getting tiresome. You are basically implying you have a (superior) understanding which puts you in a privileged position of liking AB. Astounding arrogance. I've said what I said, which was perfectly OK, and you basically keep sniping at it and trying to mischaracterise it. It is neither "tired" nor "ignorant" to describe free jazz thus, it is coherent and apposite and relevant, what is "tired" and "ignorant" is your religious-like feuding in relation to contrary viewpoints. I haven't yet even said anything specific about AB, because I'm waiting to listen to some more if it. What I've referred to is general free jazz, but it appears AB is regarded in religious-like terms, as someone people don't like being questioned but who can only respond with irrationality: just as religious folk behave. |
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« Last Edit: 19:41:38, 09-01-2008 by greenfox »
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