The Radio 3 Boards Forum from myforum365.com
00:57:27, 03-12-2008 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Whilst we happily welcome all genuine applications to our forum, there may be times when we need to suspend registration temporarily, for example when suffering attacks of spam.
 If you want to join us but find that the temporary suspension has been activated, please try again later.
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4
  Print  
Author Topic: It all petered out long long ago  (Read 1857 times)
Little Rootie Tootie
*
Posts: 31


« Reply #15 on: 10:34:26, 29-08-2007 »

A fad is a hobby, freak, whim, a practise followed enthusiastically by a number of people
for a limited period of time; as, the latest fad in fashion.   A faddist is a person who subscribes to a variety of fads

Even if Norman Lebrecht is 'our great and so perceptive English critic' he can still be wrong,  I don't quite understand what a critic of English does.

Trying to follow the strangled  'He is right is not he?' I would say 'He is wrong he is.'

The multiplicity of courses in music schools jazz, the success of Jazz festivals plus the high standard of musicianship demonstrate this.  Most people intersted in jazz have a life long interst and are certainly not faddists.

One may not like jazz but to say, by the mid-1970's it became apparent that jazz had run into a cul-de-sac and, like art music, saw no way out. Its fans became faddists and grew fewer by the year. is demonstrably false.
Logged
Baziron
Guest
« Reply #16 on: 15:44:57, 31-08-2007 »

. . . not to deny the ultimate importance of democracy . . .

Actually we recoil in horror from demo-cracy. The very thought of persons' of that kind presuming to govern us! What an ill-conceived notion it is (pace Mr. Pace)!


What is the grammatical purpose of the apostrophe after 'person' I wonder? Without it, I should have read the word as a simple plural, but with it I am confused. Perhaps there is an abstruse (though probably very correct) way in which Member Grew is prepared to argue that "persons'" here functions somehow as a genitive...

Baz
Logged
time_is_now
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 4653



« Reply #17 on: 15:57:07, 31-08-2007 »

The very thought of my presuming ...

The very thought of his presuming ...

The very thought of persons' presuming ...
Logged

The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
Chafing Dish
Guest
« Reply #18 on: 16:49:44, 31-08-2007 »

The very thought of my presuming ...

The very thought of his presuming ...

The very thought of persons' presuming ...
It all petered out long long ago in a spiraling vortex of tortured prose.
Logged
burning dog
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 192



« Reply #19 on: 21:40:33, 31-08-2007 »

"They sayeth jass is dead, but it liveth!"

Earl of Hines 1649
Logged
MT Wessel
****
Gender: Male
Posts: 406



« Reply #20 on: 02:42:19, 01-09-2007 »

Petered Out Eh ? I agree Syd and perhaps Lebrecht and Co are responsible ?
« Last Edit: 18:41:40, 01-09-2007 by MT Wessel » Logged

lignum crucis arbour scientiae
Sydney Grew
Guest
« Reply #21 on: 10:49:48, 01-09-2007 »

The very thought of my presuming ...

The very thought of his presuming ...

The very thought of persons' presuming ...

We are grateful to Member Time is Now an educated person for his elucidation.

The unremitting rigorous accuracy of our grammar must it will by now be sufficiently evident to many Members of necessity bear in fact out the larger rigorous accuracy and truth of everything we write.

For what can Logic in the end be but a superior sort of grammar?
Logged
Ron Dough
Admin/Moderator Group
*****
Posts: 5133



WWW
« Reply #22 on: 10:56:51, 01-09-2007 »

The very thought of my presuming ...

The very thought of his presuming ...

The very thought of persons' presuming ...

We are grateful to Member Time is Now an educated person for his elucidation.

The unremitting rigorous accuracy of our grammar must it will by now be sufficiently evident to many Members of necessity bear in fact out the larger rigorous accuracy and truth of everything we write.

For what can Logic in the end be but a superior sort of grammar?


All the more surprising, therefore, that the member appears to be less concerned with the rigours of punctuation: surely the clause 'an educated person' deserves separation by parenthesis or, at the very least, commas?
« Last Edit: 13:02:34, 01-09-2007 by Ron Dough » Logged
Baziron
Guest
« Reply #23 on: 11:48:07, 01-09-2007 »

The very thought of my presuming ...

The very thought of his presuming ...

The very thought of persons' presuming ...
... which all goes to show that the said Member should learn the fine differences between the Gerund and Fused Participle constructions.

Despite his previously-notified hate of Fowler, he might do well to read that author's The King's English (especially pp 124-133).

He might also be reminded that this is not a question of "education" but one of clarity of expression.

Baz
Logged
Baziron
Guest
« Reply #24 on: 13:36:22, 01-09-2007 »

...The unremitting rigorous accuracy of our grammar must it will by now be sufficiently evident to many Members of necessity bear in fact out the larger rigorous accuracy and truth of everything we write.

For what can Logic in the end be but a superior sort of grammar?

There is nothing remotely "superior" about your first quoted sentence Dr Grew. It is surely one of the most perverse and clumsy (indeed negligent!) constructions I have ever noted.

a) Since it is (you claim) the rigour of your grammar that is unremitting, you should have used the adverb "unremittingly" (yielding the phrase "unremittingly rigorous accuracy), or at least you should have placed a comma after "unremitting" so as to show that it was an adjective (of equal weight to "rigorous") of "grammar". By not having done so you have deliberately caused confusion through poor punctuation and/or syntax;

b) since members of this MB are not members "of necessity" (but only by personal choice), it is obvious that a comma must be placed both before and after the words "of necessity", so as to avoid the false implication that their membership is compulsory;

c) your use of "in fact" has no place within the verb "bear out". Furthermore, since anything at all perceived within what you write is not fact but merely observation, the use of the noun "fact" is mere assertion and over-emphasis. In any event, the words "in fact" need to be surrounded by commas (or alternatively parentheses) to avoid setting "false trails" for your readers;

d) having already confused us by the initial phrase "unremitting rigorous accuracy", you have ended by informing us of a supposed "larger rigorous accuracy". I am therefore confused as to the sense in which your supposed accuracy is either "unremitting" or "larger" (than what?).

By replacing all the mandatory punctuation you have deliberately omitted (so as even further to confuse your readers), your truly grotesque sentence should read as follows:

"The unremitting, rigorous accuracy of our grammar must, it will by now be sufficiently evident to many Members, of necessity, bear, in fact, out the larger, rigorous accuracy and truth of everything we write."

I don't somehow feel you would earn many literary awards for that!

Baz
« Last Edit: 14:05:30, 01-09-2007 by Baziron » Logged
richard barrett
Guest
« Reply #25 on: 14:04:10, 01-09-2007 »

I don't somehow, feel you would earn many literary awards for that!
The Member will perhaps excuse a polite clearing of our throat with respect to the comma in the above sentence, unless it embodies a grammatical byway of which we have remained until now quite ignorant.
Logged
Baziron
Guest
« Reply #26 on: 14:08:16, 01-09-2007 »

I don't somehow, feel you would earn many literary awards for that!
The Member will perhaps excuse a polite clearing of our throat with respect to the comma in the above sentence, unless it embodies a grammatical byway of which we have remained until now quite ignorant.

Sorry - but I did correct this afterwards (as you will note)!
Logged
Baziron
Guest
« Reply #27 on: 14:09:41, 01-09-2007 »

...although the time shown relates to another emendation!
Logged
Daniel
*****
Posts: 764



« Reply #28 on: 14:12:55, 01-09-2007 »

The unremitting rigorous accuracy of our grammar must it will by now be sufficiently evident to many Members of necessity bear in fact out the larger rigorous accuracy and truth of everything we write.

I have to say, despite all the learned objections above, I find this sentence, at this moment, on this day, an insanely fine one. (I personally would think 'unremitting' is relating to 'accuracy' not 'rigorous', thus not needing the adverb 'unremittingly'.)

 Anyway, surrounded as I am by more grammatically erudite minds, I will restrict myself to an observation of some irony, that to some degree the sentence has many characteristics I would happily find in a well and intelligently formed jazz improvisation, sustaining, as it does, its momentum in an unexpected fashion and, for this, having an impact (and hence clarity) which is heightened by having stepped out of the box of orthodox and easily anticipated resolution.


Logged
Baziron
Guest
« Reply #29 on: 14:23:32, 01-09-2007 »

The unremitting rigorous accuracy of our grammar must it will by now be sufficiently evident to many Members of necessity bear in fact out the larger rigorous accuracy and truth of everything we write.

I have to say, despite all the learned objections above, I find this sentence, at this moment, on this day, an insanely fine one. (I personally would think 'unremitting' is relating to 'accuracy' not 'rigorous', thus not needing the adverb 'unremittingly'.)

 Anyway, surrounded as I am by more grammatically erudite minds, I will restrict myself to an observation of some irony, that to some degree the sentence has many characteristics I would happily find in a well and intelligently formed jazz improvisation, sustaining, as it does, its momentum in an unexpected fashion and, for this, having an impact (and hence clarity) which is heightened by having stepped out of the box of orthodox and easily anticipated resolution.

Fair enough - perhaps Dr Grew is (at heart) a "true jazzer". Fine.

Baz
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4
  Print  
 
Jump to: