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Author Topic: Piano  (Read 406 times)
greenfox
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« on: 10:38:40, 12-01-2008 »

As well as having changing preferences in jazzers, I do the same with instruments: when I first found jazz I loved the sax. Then I liked the piano, and when I return to it I get a similar feeling every time that its a singularly elegant, rich sound. Apparently, Miles Davis once asked Gillespie where he 'got his sounds from', and G said from the piano. In other words, he tried to translate the structures and harmonies of the keyboard into the trumpet.

Jazz piano also seems the strongest area where there's a classical crossover.

Quite like this, Lynne Arriale, though I know nothing about her except for YouTube clips:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZ4eH5ELD_w

And taking on Bemsha Swing and doing something good with it is quite interesting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPSBfZ_Ms30&feature=related

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Antheil
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« Reply #1 on: 11:15:28, 12-01-2008 »

I love piano too, and leaving aside such greats as Bud Powell and Don Pullen I am a huge Herbie Hancock fan but I wonder if you have ever heard 'The Piano' by him?  To me that cd is "classical" rather than jazz in many ways.  I think if you go to Amazon you can hear clips.

p.s. available on Amazon for £5!!
« Last Edit: 11:23:13, 12-01-2008 by Antheil the Termite Lover » Logged

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greenfox
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« Reply #2 on: 12:00:27, 12-01-2008 »

No but I'll check that out. Just recently I found some great stuff from Hancock that surprised me, because it was so different from his well known tunes and one CD in particular I didn't really like.

Don't know Don Pullen either. Used to think Jarrett was looking very interesting, though now I've heard quite a lot I've changed my view on that. I think it was maybe calum who once said he thinks he's best with accompaniment, and I agree. When he's on his own, just piano, it's very different and I think not as good as for example you find on this, which I like quite a lot:



And yeah, Bud rules. And Monk.

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Antheil
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« Reply #3 on: 12:16:02, 12-01-2008 »

I like Herbie Hancock's Maiden Voyage.  As to Don Pullen here is a clip of him with George Adams (another of my Heros!) I did have a better one than this stored in the computer but can't seem to find it now, it was him just with another pianist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWQr5iIGb7o

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calum da jazbo
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« Reply #4 on: 13:44:56, 12-01-2008 »

yep piano does it for me, and rather than go through a list of names that everyone knows, i'd like to suggest Martial Solal, check him on youtube; and Ran Blake - you will have to get the records. Solal has been neglected by almost all, yet is one of the greatest living jazz pianists, and has been these last thirty years....Ran Blake is just dead interesting.
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #5 on: 13:48:47, 12-01-2008 »

I am going to read and listen to this thread later, when I have time.
Meanwhile a former student sent me this link: http://www.jazzwise.com/
My relaxation DVD Yoga for musicians came from this site. It is really good DVD if anyone interested.
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time_is_now
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« Reply #6 on: 13:58:42, 12-01-2008 »

I've had some great YouTube experiences with Cecil Taylor - felt I 'got' him there in a way I never quite had on CD, despite several attempts. Had the same experience when I went to see him at the Festival Hall last summer, and decided that what I get from his music stays with me enough for me not to need to be reminded of it by CDs, which is a good thing as I still haven't found a CD that really does it for me at the same level of intensity.

I do slightly regret, though, that it makes it hard to share/join in others' appreciation. I think it's supermarket sweep over on the R£ boards who's always enthusing about One Too Many Salty Swift and Not Goodbye - I tried a couple of times, and I probably will again at some point, but I feel I'm missing whatever it is that makes him want to keep returning to that album.

Not too long ago I thought I'd check out some Richard Muhal Abrams (Vision Towards Essence) but was bitterly disappointed. His technique just seemed so messy. Maybe it's a version of the Cecil experience and I should suspend judgment unless and until I can see him live, but I'm not so sure I want to. Undecided

Otherwise, Monk is great ('It's always night, or we wouldn't need the light' Smiley). Don't really know the earlier stuff too well - must check out Bud Powell some more. And let's not forget the late Mr Oscar Peterson ...
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #7 on: 14:14:26, 12-01-2008 »

All-time fave jazz pianists include Earl Hines, Jelly Roll Morton, James P. Johnson, Mary Lou Williams, Art Tatum, Thelonious Monk, Dave Brubeck, Cecil Taylor. Don't really know Willie 'The Lion" Smith or Marian McPartland well; slightly in two minds about Bud Powell and Lenny Tristano, Fats Waller doesn't really light my fire. Peterson was a great technician, but had very little imagination. Can't abide Keith Jarrett, Chick Corea, Herbie Hancock, and distinctly underwhelmed by Bill Evans. Count Basie and Duke Ellington - hard for me mentally to separate them out as 'pianists', as that field of their activity seems so integrated with everything else (more so than with Jelly Roll).
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
ahinton
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« Reply #8 on: 14:24:00, 12-01-2008 »

All-time fave jazz pianists include Earl Hines, Jelly Roll Morton, James P. Johnson, Mary Lou Williams, Art Tatum, Thelonious Monk, Dave Brubeck, Cecil Taylor. Don't really know Willie 'The Lion" Smith or Marian McPartland well; slightly in two minds about Bud Powell and Lenny Tristano, Fats Waller doesn't really light my fire. Peterson was a great technician, but had very little imagination. Can't abide Keith Jarrett, Chick Corea, Herbie Hancock, and distinctly underwhelmed by Bill Evans. Count Basie and Duke Ellington - hard for me mentally to separate them out as 'pianists', as that field of their activity seems so integrated with everything else (more so than with Jelly Roll).
Interesting indeed that you find Peterson (on whose technique we obviously agree) so lacking in imagination at the same time as praising the pianist who must surely have been one his most significant mentors, Tatum. I can't abide Dave Brubeck, as it happens, but that's merely a personal opinion. Of all those you mention above, the one I'd have been most intrigued to hear in Chopin's Op. 10 would have been Peterson (for what, if anything, that fact may or may not be worth...)

Best,

Alistair
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #9 on: 15:02:16, 12-01-2008 »


Interesting indeed that you find Peterson (on whose technique we obviously agree) so lacking in imagination at the same time as praising the pianist who must surely have been one his most significant mentors, Tatum.
Tatum clearly to my ears was a significant influence on Peterson (though Peterson didn't tend to talk about this so much as the influence of Nat King Cole), but the comparison between the two makes the very significant difference them all the more apparent.

You know that quote 'I'd give a million dollars to know how Horowitz plays his octaves, but what's really important is what Horowitz feels when he plays those octaves' (or words to that effect)? That's very much how I feel about Tatum. One of the greatest facilities of all time (not totally without its limits - not so great at really full-bodied arrays of successive chords, perhaps, something that Brubeck was a master of), but all inextricably intertwined with his personality.
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
calum da jazbo
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« Reply #10 on: 15:03:16, 12-01-2008 »

Ian P you be underwhelmed if you want, i'll just carry on listening to Bill evans with great delight.

Duke Ellington is under recognised for his pianism, try a cd called Solos, Duets, trios and hear the great Jimmy Blanton invent modern jazz bass playing as well.

John lewis was a limited pianist, but imho played some of the most exquisitely exciting jazz on the instrument.


brit John taylor has a new cd out that appears worth listening to.

MARTIAL SOLAL  RAN BLAKE
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richard barrett
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« Reply #11 on: 16:41:23, 12-01-2008 »

I listen to Monk and Cecil Taylor far more than to anyone else mentioned here so far. I used to be very keen on Borah Bergman too, but what he's been doing recently turns me right off. On the other hand I think John Tilbury's improvisational playing is getting better all the time. I'd say the same about Fred van Hove. I've never really "got" Muhal Richard Abrams though I haven't tried as much as I ought to have don. For me the most creative pianist working presently in the UK is Veryan Weston. Chris Burn, Marilyn Crispell, Agusti Fernandez, Alex Hawkins, Wolfgang Mitterer, Howard Riley, Frederic Rzewski, Irene Schweizer, Pat Thomas, Keith Tippett are all people whose playing I've been impressed by.

I suppose that indicates that I don't have such an intimate relationship with jazz piano playing as such.
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autoharp
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« Reply #12 on: 17:12:21, 12-01-2008 »

All-time fave jazz pianists include Earl Hines, Jelly Roll Morton, James P. Johnson, Mary Lou Williams, Art Tatum, Thelonious Monk, Dave Brubeck, Cecil Taylor. Don't really know Willie 'The Lion" Smith or Marian McPartland well; slightly in two minds about Bud Powell and Lenny Tristano, Fats Waller doesn't really light my fire. Peterson was a great technician, but had very little imagination. Can't abide Keith Jarrett, Chick Corea, Herbie Hancock, and distinctly underwhelmed by Bill Evans. Count Basie and Duke Ellington - hard for me mentally to separate them out as 'pianists', as that field of their activity seems so integrated with everything else (more so than with Jelly Roll).
Interesting indeed that you find Peterson (on whose technique we obviously agree) so lacking in imagination at the same time as praising the pianist who must surely have been one his most significant mentors, Tatum. I can't abide Dave Brubeck, as it happens, but that's merely a personal opinion. Of all those you mention above, the one I'd have been most intrigued to hear in Chopin's Op. 10 would have been Peterson (for what, if anything, that fact may or may not be worth...)

Best,

Alistair

I have to add my voice in support of Art Tatum (who seldom disappoints) rather than Oscar Peterson, who despite his phenomenal technique, bothers me with his lack of economy (late 60s and 70s in particular). Mind you I have to side with Alistair on Brubeck . . .
I think there's a danger in over-generalisation here: it might be helpful to list a couple of favourite tracks for each pianist we individually admire (?).

John Tilbury is one of the few free improvisers (as opposed to jazzers) on piano who always impresses me. I well remember one AMM performance with Keith Rowe and Eddie Prevost a few years back, where he spent the first ten minutes or so playing nothing but slowish mid-register root position triads (the last taboo for an improvising pianist?). That sort of thing shouldn't really work, should it? I can't imagine any other pianist getting away with that.

Talking of "Taboo" - that is definitely one of my favourite Tatum numbers.
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Tantris
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« Reply #13 on: 16:25:06, 14-01-2008 »

Cecil Taylor, obviously, and especially in several of his solo performances - Silent Tongues, Indent, Garden, Solo, leading up to Erzulie Maketh Scent. His recordings with quartets or larger groups can be superb, but they are not in the same league - the solo recordings are sublime. One aspect I find interesting is the way in which the overt influences - Debussy, Scriabin, Stravinsky, Bartok and Messiaen - are expressed compared to composers with very similar influences such as James Dillon. (Erzulie Maketh Scent is directly comparable to the Book of Elements, for example, and parts of Spring of Two Blue J's remind me of Black/Nebulae.) This does make me think about the difference between composed and improvised music, and the nature of human imagination. Despite the polemical aspect to CT's music, I don't think, or haven't sensed, that there is any comparison of substance with composers such as Michael Finnissy, however.

I also enjoy Bill Evans, particularly the classic 1961 Village Vanguard recordings, and some of the later overdubbed Verve recordings. I always get the feeling of something latent - not dissimilar to several of Shostakovich's preludes and fugues. And I can listen for hours to Andrew Hill - there is a superb ROIO recording of Hill and Mal Waldron at a Canadian festival which I would strongly recommend. Paul Bley is also a pianist I find fascinating - Blood, Footloose etc are wonderful, and I have Solo at Mondsee in my to listen to pile.

Finally, I would second the comments on John Tilbury - his duos with Evan Parker are superb.
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richard barrett
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« Reply #14 on: 16:47:23, 14-01-2008 »

Erzulie Maketh Scent is directly comparable to the Book of Elements

What do you mean by directly comparable, I wonder? One is made up of selfcontained segments and the other isn't. Also there are numerous important features of CT's playing which have no direct connection to any written music - the very rapid single lines played by alternating hands, often in clusters, for example. For these and other reasons I never thought of a connection there. But when I have a chance I'll listen to both in turn and see if I can work this out for myself.

Andrew Hill and Mal Waldron are two serious gaps in my jazz listening experience. I find Bill Evans' sense of harmony highly fascinating but I can't say I know his work very well either. I've liked most of the Paul Bley that I've heard, though I haven't really detected a particularly strong personal identity in what he does (as opposed for example to Taylor and Evans in their different ways).
« Last Edit: 17:32:37, 14-01-2008 by richard barrett » Logged
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