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Author Topic: Top 20 books of all time  (Read 1720 times)
IgnorantRockFan
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« Reply #15 on: 16:58:30, 22-04-2008 »

With more thought I may have included Faulkner but he didn't immediately spring to mind as I don't personally know anything by him  Embarrassed


And, Swan Knight: I have trouble assessing non-English writers because I have no way of knowing how far their prose is being obscured by the translation. Yes, I can assess the strength of their ideas and characters, but I can't hold up a passage as well written because I'm not reading the passage as it was actually written!

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Allegro, ma non tanto
ahh
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« Reply #16 on: 17:04:13, 22-04-2008 »

My, what a Noeud de vipères (sic) you're tying IRF.

I think you should say something to clarify what you mean by 'top'. Best written? Influential? Life changing? (What is it Channel Four says - 'films/books/interior designs you MUST see/read/DIY before you die')

Well I do like to be shot at, so I'll stick my neck out, but some criteria first please.
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IgnorantRockFan
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« Reply #17 on: 17:14:20, 22-04-2008 »

I've posed the question exactly as it was posed to me. No criteria applied. I think the task of identifying the 20 "best" books by any criteria is impossible... but it does lead to some interesting discussions.

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ahh
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« Reply #18 on: 17:54:38, 22-04-2008 »

OK here's a random 20 (21 if you spot I've 2 Shakespeares)

Tyndale's New Testament (It pays to be specific about translation)
Oedipus Rex - Sophocles (Mr Freud, have a career!)
The Divine Comedy - Dante Alighieri - ('cause literature is as important and hallowed as sacred texts)
Frankenstein - Mary Shelley (Not only a great read, and perhaps the one of the most referenced by popular culture , but written by a 19 year old! Sickening)
Moby Dick - Herman Melville (bit boy's own adventure, but this book has everything - well, except women)
Uncle Remus -  (oh yeah, people with unwhite complexions - Black or Red - tell stories too)
Catch 22 - Joseph Heller (funny - laugh out loud funny, and yet so clever too)
Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas - Hunter S. Thompson (just the funniest book ever smoked)
Master and Marguarita - Mikhail Bulgakov (not sure how good this still is, I read it very young and impressionable - but maybe that's the point of putting it in the list)
Hamlet/King Lear - William Shakespeare (to list or not to list)
Origin of the Species - Charles Darwin (I only read this last year - it's actually ok)
Das Kapital - Karl Marx (the Channel Fours list the world, the point is to change it switch Channels)
Ulysees - James Joyce (writer's craft is astounding, now where did I leave that punctuation?)
Tales of Mystery and Imagination Edgar Allen Poe - (Does for short stories what Cervantes does for the novel)
L'Etranger - Albert Camus (especially good in the original French)
Gravity's Rainbow - Thomas Pynchon (personal favourite - dense, funny, brilliant)
If On a Winter's Night - Italo Calvino (late 20th century metafictional classic)
Invisible Man - Ralph Ellison (just bloody good)
The Bloody Chamber - Angela Carter (can't quite do pure Sade, but this fusion of Sade and fairy tale is beautiful)
Mahabharat - (havn't read Qu'ran or other spiritual epics so I can't include them)


I immediately want to add another 21, ah well. Indeed, I get so little time to read novels these days the 'top' novel tends to be the last one I read.
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« Reply #19 on: 18:28:08, 22-04-2008 »


I suppose you mean Mrs Virginia Woolf? A terrible overrated old lady.


Ahem - surely suicide meant she didn't get too old! Does this mean you think her juvenila to be underated?  Wink  I quite like her writing style - but what a middle-class bigot!

There's some great choices listed here, too many of them I have not read. Principia Mathmatica, though my school made me take science O Levels they neglected to put Latin on the Comprehensive curriculum.
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time_is_now
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« Reply #20 on: 18:36:12, 22-04-2008 »

Only just looked at this thread. I think it's an impossible question, but in the course of refusing to answer it I'm happy to express my support for Madame Bovary, The Divine Comedy, Moby-Dick, Ulysses, Proust, plus something 19th-century Russian (there are too many gaps in my reading for me to choose which, but I'm surprised no one's gone for Pushkin - Yevgeny Onegin).

Beyond that, PW's list seems pretty unimpeachable. I'd add Freud's Psychopathology of Everyday Life (apologies if this has been mentioned already, I didn't spot it anywhere). And I second Pim on David Hume.

Faulkner, Pynchon, and Ellison's Invisible Man all deserve special mentions, even if they don't make the final cut. I can't accept Calvino, Mary Shelley, or Angela Carter meet the claims made for them.
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« Reply #21 on: 18:42:18, 22-04-2008 »

Faulkner....I've read quite a bit by him, but I can't claim he's a favourite: distinctive and original, certainly, but I always feel that he communicates through a 'fog'.  This is not a criticism as such, though!
Definitely As I Lay Dying rather than The Sound & The Fury.

Yes. But Absalom! Absalom! rather then As I Lay Dying.

If we're going on 'importance' then I agree with tinners that it's hard to see a way around PW's selection!
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« Reply #22 on: 19:01:55, 22-04-2008 »

I can't stand important things.
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Swan_Knight
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« Reply #23 on: 19:03:25, 22-04-2008 »

Is Virginia Woolf 'important'?

If you're a feminist, probably yes. However, I'm not, so she means diddly squat to me.
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time_is_now
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« Reply #24 on: 19:20:28, 22-04-2008 »

Is Virginia Woolf 'important'?

If you're a feminist, probably yes. However, I'm not, so she means diddly squat to me.
If you have that little sympathy with feminism, I wouldn't presume to comment on what may or may not be important to feminists. Personally, I find Virginia Woolf as dispensable to feminism as she is to anything else. However, I'm surprised anyone went along with Pim's assumption that 'Woolfe' (sic) was a reference to Virginia in the first place. I assumed IRF meant Tom Wolfe.
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« Reply #25 on: 19:23:20, 22-04-2008 »

Eight personal favourites couldn't think of 20, but here goes:
Kidnapped by RLS.  Read it as a child and always wanted to be Alan Breck Stewart.
Humphrey Clinker by Smollett.  Vividly absorbing, funny and almost unknown.
The Sword of Honour trilogy of Evelyn Waugh, funny and beautifully written.
A Time of Gifts and Between the Woods and the Water.  Patrick Leigh Fermor's finest works, oh how I wish the third volume appears one day.
Wind in the Willows.  Loved it as a child and still do.
These stay with me more than most.
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #26 on: 19:57:51, 22-04-2008 »

I can't stand important things.



I'm in total agreement with Turfan F here..  I'm not sure what's served by league-tables of this kind... especially when there are no criteria.  To me it seems an exercise in futility.

"Important" to whom?  To me? To undergraduates? To society as a whole?  

Anyone for Composers Objectively Rated?  

Whilst THE MASTER & MARGARITA is a book I can reread endlessly, I think that its "importance" has gone through a series of metamorphoses that the author cannot have planned:

i) as a challenge to soviet censorship (as an unpublished, unread text) - unknown both inside and outside the USSR
ii) as a testament to the uncrushable resilience of a creative spirit (as an unpublished, unread text)
iii) as an infamously banned book believed to be in illicit circulation (as an unpublished, unread text)
iv) as an illicit object whose possession could result in being jailed (as an unpublished, unread text)
v) as a critique of an existing regime's insane excesses (as an illicitly circulated samizdat text)
vi) as a bravura work of black comedy
vii) as a religious allegory (in a country in which religion was repressed as a State policy)
viii) as the symbol of the systematic destruction of the career of its author by the State (and as a microcosm of this within the text)
ix) as a rallying-call against censorship in the gradual thaw of soviet hard-line policy
x) as an example of the viciousness, stupidity and pettiness of soviet censorship (as a now-published text)
xi) as a compulsory work on school curricula (as a now-published text)
xii) as the work on which the most high-budget mini-series ever made for Russian TV was based
xiii) as a historical document used to teach "how it was back then" to a new generation who feel ashamed of their country's past and have no wish to be associated with it

The level of "importance" probably never changed greatly - but the reason for the "importance" changed beyond all recognition.

By comparison there's Anatoly Rybakov's CHILDREN OF THE ARBAT.  What?  Yes, you may well ask.  In Russia it is more well-known (as a banned book) than DR ZHIVAGO, mainly because Rybakov was sent to the Gulag for it  (neither Bulakov nor Pasternak endured more than being shut-out of professional life,  although this was bad enough).  The "importance" of Children Of The Arbat was that it, too, challenged soviet censorship.  (It's the story of a promising Honours student who is sent to the Gulag for making an unwise practical joke at his college after a few drinks).  As literature, it's bilge, and very poorly written - the characters aren't even cardboard. The importance was the topic alone.
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ahh
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« Reply #27 on: 20:40:30, 22-04-2008 »

Eight personal favourites couldn't think of 20, but here goes:
Kidnapped by RLS.  Read it as a child and always wanted to be Alan Breck Stewart.
Humphrey Clinker by Smollett.  Vividly absorbing, funny and almost unknown.
The Sword of Honour trilogy of Evelyn Waugh, funny and beautifully written.
A Time of Gifts and Between the Woods and the Water.  Patrick Leigh Fermor's finest works, oh how I wish the third volume appears one day.
Wind in the Willows.  Loved it as a child and still do.
These stay with me more than most.

I respect the earnest selections in this thread and yet more earnest (should that read 'important'?) deliberation upon selections. However, I am moved by your highly personal list Gradus, especially the fact it contains children's books. It seems to me that it is in childhood that we come to appreciate the very concept of books and what they can mean to us. Thank you for reminding me of that and, lamentably, of this...

I think I want to amend my list and add 'Tootles the Taxi', its the only book I felt passionately enough about to steal.  I was about 3 1/2 years old at the time and the guilt has remained, most earnestly, to this day.


To me it seems an exercise in futility.
'It occurred to me that my speech or my silence, indeed any action of mine, would be a mere futility' Marlowe - Heart of Darkness.

I'd be the first to admit I'm a flawed narrator at best! Or is that with the best??  Wink

Does anyone know if that Russian TV adaption of Master and Margarita is coming to our screens? Just curious.

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Ian Pace
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« Reply #28 on: 21:33:33, 22-04-2008 »

Is Virginia Woolf 'important'?

If you're a feminist, probably yes. However, I'm not, so she means diddly squat to me.
No, her so-called 'feminism' did not extend to women of a lower class than herself, who she regarded with nothing other than patronising contempt (as she did men of those other classes as well).
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #29 on: 21:35:50, 22-04-2008 »

Anyone else like to see Fontane's Effi Briest get a look in?
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