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Author Topic: hemmingway is fab  (Read 824 times)
richard barrett
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« Reply #15 on: 11:10:24, 21-08-2008 »

Didn't Feldman like Hemmmingway?

I'm always surprised that Feldman wrote such beautiful and coherent music given the fog of confusion his brain seems habitually to have been in, to judge from incoherent ramblings like that, of which as you'll know there are very many.
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harmonyharmony
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« Reply #16 on: 11:12:04, 21-08-2008 »

Didn't Feldman like Hemmmmmingway?

I'mm always surprised that Feldmman wrote such beautiful and coherent mmusic given the fog of confusion his brain seemms habitually to have been in, to judge fromm incoherent rammblings like that, of which as you'll know there are very mmany.

Yes, and I seemm to remmemmber that we've disagreed on this before... Smiley
I mmaintain that there are somme gemms in the mmidst of all the incoherent rammblings that mmake it worth reading it all.
Which is why I'mm taking the book away with mme this week!
« Last Edit: 11:14:55, 21-08-2008 by harmonyharmony » Logged

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richard barrett
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« Reply #17 on: 11:17:07, 21-08-2008 »

I maintain that there are some gems in the midst of all the incoherent ramblings that make it worth reading it all.
Which is why I'm taking the book away with my this week!

No, it isn't all nonsense of course, but I would respectfully submit that he hasn't said anything useful about Hemingway in that paragraph, though he has managed to bring in a gratuitous reference to Günter Grass whose work has nothing to do with Hemingway but who was supposedly a friend of Feldman - and so it usually goes on...
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Philidor
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« Reply #18 on: 11:40:16, 21-08-2008 »

O boy, I do hope not, phil, I do hope not.

A google on 'Hemingway gay' reveals:

Quote
For some years now and in several recent biographies, evidence has been gathering that Ernest Hemingway was not, after all, the avatar of monolithic masculinity that he was once so universally assumed to be.

Source

Quote
Truman Capote reportedly called Ernest Hemingway "the greatest old closet queen ever to come down the pike" (Conversation with Robert Jennings in 1968 - hemingway wore dresses)

There has been speculation that Ernest Heminway and F. Scott Fitzgerald were gay lovers.

Source

Please can someone say something nice about EH?

Mates with Castro?
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #19 on: 11:42:25, 21-08-2008 »

I completely agree with Swan_Knight.
I can not say it better my self.

He was so popular. All people on subway and other transports were reading him.
It was difficult to get his books. I think  he was only published in one magazine.
I only remember that my mother read it.

When we lived in the USA I tried to read his books again. I don't know why I am not interested.
Am I wrong?

I read his biography and was sad.
« Last Edit: 12:01:54, 21-08-2008 by trained-pianist » Logged
Don Basilio
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« Reply #20 on: 12:02:26, 21-08-2008 »

I don't think you and I are very Ernest Hemingway sorts of people, tp.

Still better crowds reading him than Dan Browne.
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Ruby2
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« Reply #21 on: 14:43:56, 21-08-2008 »

I mmaintain that there are somme gemms in the mmidst of all the incoherent rammblings that mmake it worth reading it all.
Like following your own instructions, for instance:

Quote
My friend, whom I like very much, Günter Grass, is not a taker-outer, he is a putter-inner, one tragedy after another, you see. Günter Grass learned nothing from Hemingway, you see. So the point is, it's the same thing. We know what to take out. We have an instinct to take things out, maybe it's a commercial instinct, really. Maybe it's like writing a Madison Avenue ad.
Maybe he should learn to take out "you see" and "maybe", you see?

Of course, I never ramble... ahem.  Embarrassed
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richard barrett
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« Reply #22 on: 14:59:53, 21-08-2008 »

Quote
My friend, whom I like very much, Günter Grass, is not a taker-outer, he is a putter-inner, one tragedy after another, you see. Günter Grass learned nothing from Hemingway, you see. So the point is, it's the same thing. We know what to take out. We have an instinct to take things out, maybe it's a commercial instinct, really. Maybe it's like writing a Madison Avenue ad.
Maybe he should learn to take out "you see" and "maybe", you see?

To be fair, though, I think that's a transcription of some live rambling, which is what "Morty" used to do when he was invited to give lectures on music. I remember one occasion when a member of the audience (not me, but someone I know well) put his hand up after a long string of meandering anecdotes and asked Feldman whether he could possibly say something about his musical materials. The reply was something like "Don't talk to me about material. I've thrown away material the poorest of you would pay a million dollars for." Er, yes, right, thanks.
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IgnorantRockFan
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« Reply #23 on: 15:15:06, 21-08-2008 »

Quote from: Morton Feldman, 'The Future of Local Music', anthologised in Give My Regards to Eighth Street; Collected Writings of Morton Feldman, edited by B. H. Friedman (Cambridge MA: Exact Change, 2000)
That's another reason why I work on the piano. It slows me down. If you don't work at the piano then it's what Hemingway referred to as the difference between writing and typing. If you don't write at the piano you are typing.

I confess I have no idea what Feldman is really trying to say, but Hemmingway did type. There is apparently a big demand these days for the exact style of vintage typewriter he used (this is a central point in Joe Haldeman's The Hemmingway Hoax).

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Swan_Knight
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« Reply #24 on: 20:26:15, 21-08-2008 »

If you can pick up a copy of Paul Johnson's excellent book 'Intellectuals' (currently not in print, I fear), you'll find an excellent and highly critical chapter on Hemingway, whom I would not have easily classed as an 'intellectual'.  The book is a (justified) demolition job on all varieties of left-wing thinkers, but Johnson does attempt a balanced view of E.H.  Sidebar to this, anyone with any residual admiration for Bertolt Brecht ought to read Johnson's chapter on him - it'll disappear pdq!
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Stanley Stewart
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« Reply #25 on: 20:31:07, 21-08-2008 »

It is now many years since I enjoyed Hemingway's terse prose in his collection of short stories and I'm not to keen to revisit Carlos Baker's lengthy biography again, although at the time it did encourage me to continue with the major novels.   Most of his work failed badly when adapted for the cinema as the visual language could not match the distinction of his prose.   The one exception was the first version of "The Killers" (1946) which is a masterpiece in film noir.

This afternoon, I took a copy of 'Ernest Hemingway' (1978) by Anthony Burgess, off my shelves; a neat 130pp vignette in the Thames & Hudson Literary Lives series.     "He had to turn himself into a Homeric myth, which meant posing and lying, treating life as fiction,...it is difficult to sort-out the self-made legend from a reality less glamorous, though still glamorous enough... Hemingway the legend is treated sceptically by Professor Baker, but the portrait of Hemingway the man that emerges does not diminish the writer, hunter, warrior, bullfight aficionado."

I was certainly content to discount his fibs and tantrums when, as a young man,  I read about his changing scene: from a happy childhood to the grim reality of the First World War; from the Paris of the twenties to the Spanish Civil War;  the experiences of an African safari to the sadness of his last years in Cuba.     I saw a self-portrait in the character of the dying Harry, from a gangrened leg, lying on a plane, looking up at 'The Snows of Kilimanjaro', fully aware that he had followed the wrong gods and wasted his talent.   A white hunter told Hemingway that the frozen corpse of a leopard had been found in the heights of the mountain.   The story of the 'clean' death of the overreaching predator and the dirty death through gangrene are then used as powerful symbols.   The beast dies nobly seeking the summit and the gangrene represents the corruption and mortification of a talent misused , prostituted, permitted to atrophy.  Harry finally faces his destiny having at last 'burnt the fat off his soul'.

Anthony Burgess's assessment is both penetrating and generous and my reminiscences today are more happily aligned in this direction.



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time_is_now
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« Reply #26 on: 12:53:50, 22-08-2008 »

Thank you, Stanley. I don't know Hemingway's work well but I feel I want to like him more than most contributors to this thread seem to. I have a Spanish translation of The Old Man and the Sea by my bed which I picked up in Mexico (it struck me as a good way of giving some grounding in the written word to my rather basic spoken Spanish, although it contains more words for different kinds of fish than any beginner in a language really wants to know), and I may return to it soon.

I haven't read Paul Johnson's Intellectuals, but I sincerely doubt that my admiration (which is not in any case 'residual') for Bertolt Brecht's work could be diminished by anything that might or might not turn out to be true about his life.
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pim_derks
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« Reply #27 on: 15:33:00, 22-08-2008 »

A google on 'Hemingway gay' reveals:

Quote
For some years now and in several recent biographies, evidence has been gathering that Ernest Hemingway was not, after all, the avatar of monolithic masculinity that he was once so universally assumed to be.

Source

Quote
Truman Capote reportedly called Ernest Hemingway "the greatest old closet queen ever to come down the pike" (Conversation with Robert Jennings in 1968 - hemingway wore dresses)

There has been speculation that Ernest Heminway and F. Scott Fitzgerald were gay lovers.

Source

I found Hemingway's description of army life not erotic at all, so I don't think he was gay. But I'm not an expert on this.

I find the following clip far more revealing, entertaining and "interesting":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nisMqIKkOs

By the way, I wonder if Member Grew has read the following book:



It was published in France not so long ago and caused quite a stir. The invasion of German Körperkultur was a liberating force (well, sexually speaking) in 1940s France. Remember Sartre's description of the German troops marching into Paris in The Roads to Freedom? I see that through different eyes now.



Eyes, yes...
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #28 on: 15:43:20, 22-08-2008 »

I feel a bit, well not guilty, but that I have not been fair to the man.  The cliche I have of him is not one to endear him to me, but I might give it a try.

I bought Right Ho Jeeves in Italian (Perfetto Jeeves).  I have not studied it sufficently seriously.
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A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
time_is_now
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« Reply #29 on: 15:51:27, 22-08-2008 »

I bought Right Ho Jeeves in Italian (Perfetto Jeeves).  I have not studied it sufficently seriously.
One of Hemingway's most striking and personal works, surely.

And the Italian translation, according to Philip Hensher, is sublime.
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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