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Author Topic: hemmingway is fab  (Read 824 times)
Lord Byron
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« on: 15:18:29, 20-08-2008 »

he just is, so short, so to the point, so honest

am looking forward to the book club discussion on 'the old man and the sea' ....
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pim_derks
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« Reply #1 on: 15:20:17, 20-08-2008 »

So far, I found almost anything I read by Ernest very disappointing. Undecided
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Swan_Knight
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« Reply #2 on: 17:55:56, 20-08-2008 »

I've always wondered what's so great about EH - despite having enjoyed a fair few of his books. 

I'm still convinced that the Nobel Academy was only trying to cosy up to America by giving him their Literature Prize. 

He also founded a school of truly execrable imitators.  The David Bowie of American Literature, perhaps?

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Milly Jones
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« Reply #3 on: 18:29:16, 20-08-2008 »

Shouldn't he only have one 'm'?  Huh
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Morticia
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« Reply #4 on: 19:03:20, 20-08-2008 »

Shouldn't he only have one 'm'?  Huh

Milly, maybe it's referring to the little-known writer Ethelred Hemmingway.? He was, I believe,  very short and immensely proud of his double 'm'... No bull Wink
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Stanley Stewart
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« Reply #5 on: 19:12:24, 20-08-2008 »

A clear case of "To Have and Have Not"?     Grin
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Don Basilio
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Era solo un mio sospetto


« Reply #6 on: 10:02:20, 21-08-2008 »

I haven't read any Hemingway since school (For Whom the Bell Tolls, which we read at the same time as Robert Graves and Sassoon on WW1. I preferred them.)

I'm afraid that when I see a man over 60 with weather-beaten, deeply lined, copper tanned face, white full set beard, white bouffant hair, rolled up sleeves and hairy fore arms, my immediate reaction is "What a fraud." 

As a prose stylist, I prefer P G Wodehouse.  Or if you want an American, Raymond Chandler.

For descriptions of vigorous outdoor pursuits I prefer Arthur Ransome.

But it takes all sorts.  Enjoy The Old Man and the Sea, Lord B.
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perfect wagnerite
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« Reply #7 on: 10:13:52, 21-08-2008 »

For descriptions of vigorous outdoor pursuits I prefer Arthur Ransome.

  Smiley
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pim_derks
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« Reply #8 on: 10:23:03, 21-08-2008 »

I'm afraid that when I see a man over 60 with weather-beaten, deeply lined, copper tanned face, white full set beard, white bouffant hair, rolled up sleeves and hairy fore arms, my immediate reaction is "What a fraud."



Not to mention the gun and the lion!
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Philidor
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WWW
« Reply #9 on: 10:37:18, 21-08-2008 »

Was he gay? All that manly posturing, drinking, fighting, slaughtering the wildlife, has more than a whiff of 'The lady doth protest too much' about it. I've not read a biography.
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #10 on: 10:45:38, 21-08-2008 »

O boy, I do hope not, phil, I do hope not.

Please can someone say something nice about EH?  Not my cup of tea by a long way but it would be nice to give Lord B something positive for his Book Club.
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richard barrett
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« Reply #11 on: 10:49:45, 21-08-2008 »

it would be nice to give Lord B something positive for his Book Club.

Usually "fab" is enough for him isn't it? I remember being strongly affected by the Spencer Tracy film of The Old Man and the Sea (at an age when I'd never heard of Ernest Hemingway) but Hemingway's writing I find pretty arid.
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #12 on: 10:57:39, 21-08-2008 »

But isn't critical evaluation about truthfulness as one sees it, Don B? How many works of art are truly just "fab" (or the opposite)? Shouldn't one arrive at an appraisal by discovering the positive and negative aspects of a work and its creator and considering how they balance out?
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harmonyharmony
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« Reply #13 on: 10:58:21, 21-08-2008 »

Didn't Feldman like Hemmmingway?
I seem to remember something...

Quote from: Morton Feldman, 'The Future of Local Music', anthologised in Give My Regards to Eighth Street; Collected Writings of Morton Feldman, edited by B. H. Friedman (Cambridge MA: Exact Change, 2000)
X
That's another reason why I work on the piano. It slows me down. If you don't work at the piano then it's what Hemingway referred to as the difference between writing and typing. If you don't write at the piano you are typing. Do you know the way Hemingway wrote? It's very interesting because of the fact that he wrote about Michigan and his doctor father and the ducks, he wrote very much from something he picked up from Gertrude Stein, who observed it in Cézanne. And yet the subject has nothing to do with the Cézanne. He also picked it up from Gertrude Stein's idea about what went in English literature. Essentially he tried to get back to Chaucer. Gertrude Stein, she said, "In the beginning was the word. Then they put two words together, then they made a sentence, then they made a paragraph and they forgot the word." "Sumer is icumen in" - it's great, "Sumer is icumen in" - the phonetic feeling of the word. So he would sit in a café and in black, in block letters he would write "BACK HOME IN MICHIGAN" - this is only a parody, right - and he would look from one word, to another word and to another word and then he would form the sentence, rather than just saying, writing some boring version of back home in, you know. Very very important and the sound of the word in relation to another word just sitting there like an idiot and writing these things and then waking up one day and your name is Hemingway.

The point that I'm trying to make is, how do we know what to take out? I don't like to make a distinction between Europe and America, but there is a distinction and I feel that one of the big ditinctions, for example in literature, is say someone like Hemingway, he was a taker-outer. My friend, whom I like very much, Günter Grass, is not a taker-outer, he is a putter-inner, one tragedy after another, you see. Günter Grass learned nothing from Hemingway, you see. So the point is, it's the same thing. We know what to take out. We have an instinct to take things out, maybe it's a commercial instinct, really. Maybe it's like writing a Madison Avenue ad.

I have never read any Hemmmmingway so I cannot comment. Only repeat the words of others.
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Don Basilio
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Era solo un mio sospetto


« Reply #14 on: 11:01:38, 21-08-2008 »

But isn't critical evaluation about truthfulness as one sees it, Don B? How many works of art are truly just "fab" (or the opposite)? Shouldn't one arrive at an appraisal by discovering the positive and negative aspects of a work and its creator and considering how they balance out?

I think that's what I meant.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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