The Radio 3 Boards Forum from myforum365.com
11:12:13, 01-12-2008 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Whilst we happily welcome all genuine applications to our forum, there may be times when we need to suspend registration temporarily, for example when suffering attacks of spam.
 If you want to join us but find that the temporary suspension has been activated, please try again later.
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  

Pages: 1 ... 22 23 [24] 25 26 ... 63
  Print  
Author Topic: Poetry Appreciation Thread.  (Read 19823 times)
SusanDoris
****
Posts: 267



« Reply #345 on: 20:00:02, 23-01-2008 »

Don Basilio #328

I used to have a copy of 'The Four Quartets' and read them occasionally, but would have enjoyed them better if I had known more about their structure etc. I knew I liked them, but I didn't know why!
When I was teacher training (as a mature student) French was my main subject and we had a wonderful tutor. We each had a set of 'Lagard et Michard' and using the poems and prose extracts, we would do the 'explication de textes' which was definitely the kind of analysis that appealed to me.

Quote
Perhaps quotabiltiy is most important thing about poetry, and it can only be appreciated after several readings.  This is one reason why Susandoris' poetry circle fills me with dread.  I found you commentary very enlightening, maybe she did as well.
Yes,the circle was a bit grim!

I borrowed an audio copy of 'Paradise Lost' a few years back. I just listened without stoppping the tape so gained an overall impression which was quite an interesting thing to do.
« Last Edit: 20:22:08, 23-01-2008 by SusanDoris » Logged
George Garnett
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 3855



« Reply #346 on: 20:20:36, 23-01-2008 »

But I don't think Eliot had thought it through nearly so well as you, George. Smiley
Yes, that's probably the explanation, t-i-n  Cheesy


Just one more from Wendy Cope Wink


E Pericoloso Sporgersi

But a modulation to D flat minor
argues for pronouns of a different kind:
the consideration of history as syntax
or a slow dance of nomadic stones.
No wonder the flight of the pigeon
over the Piazza Cortina at sunset
becomes a gesture of the purest angst.

Pastruccio knew what to make of such
gratuitous moments, the refractions
of inveterate light. In a garden
of non sequiturs the silkworm dozes,
ignorant of Spinoza and unworried
by sex or the darkening obscurity
of sonorous sentences like these.

My cat piddles on the carpet and yawns.
Art, he reflects, is rivalled only
by a cargo of absolutes sailing northwards
to Goethe's incomparable parakeet.
The gods dream dictionaries and sonatinas.
Beyond the window their shadows lengthen,
aspiring to the stature of a late quartet.

 
Logged
time_is_now
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 4653



« Reply #347 on: 20:36:38, 23-01-2008 »

She's got more range than I'd realised, though I'd want to read her more extensively before deciding whether the whimsicality is in the end a minus.

I won't pass comment on that modulation to D flat minor, though it might raise a few eyebrows on a board such as this. Wink
Logged

The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
George Garnett
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 3855



« Reply #348 on: 20:55:06, 23-01-2008 »

Oh, I don't know that we have to decide, do we? She does non-whimsical as well as whimsical. These parodies are all by her alter ego, the poet 'Jason Strugnell'. I suppose a little goes a long way but they are very good parodies.

I wouldn't dare post any Wendy Cope over on the M & S Board though. I'd soon be put back in my box.Grin  (I quite like Carol Ann Duffy Sad and hadn't realised she counted as insanely conservative and establishment. Caught out fraternising the wrong sided of the barricades again.)   

I wasn't sure about D flat minor either, whether it was deliberate or not. There you are, some ambiguity as well!


« Last Edit: 10:52:32, 24-01-2008 by George Garnett » Logged
Don Basilio
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 2682


Era solo un mio sospetto


« Reply #349 on: 22:05:50, 23-01-2008 »

I borrowed an audio copy of 'Paradise Lost' a few years back. I just listened without stoppping the tape so gained an overall impression which was quite an interesting thing to do.

The rhetoric is magnificent, but far from "justifying the ways of God to man (sic)" in my opinion it provides a very good case for atheism.  It inspired Philip Pullman.  "The want of human interest is every where felt" was the judgment of Samuel Johnson.
Logged

To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
time_is_now
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 4653



« Reply #350 on: 17:27:48, 24-01-2008 »

I quite like Carol Ann Duffy Sad and hadn't realised she counted as insanely conservative and establishment
Neither had I, although I don't think I've read any since I was at school. She's a lesbian, isn't she?

I've just encountered some ambiguity in my email inbox:

DTPM Sydney
3rd Birthday Party

Australia Day Long Weekend at Tank

I spent a good few seconds wondering why a day-long weekend was something to shout about. Roll Eyes
Logged

The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
martle
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 6685



« Reply #351 on: 17:31:05, 24-01-2008 »

I spent a good few seconds wondering why a day-long weekend was something to shout about. Roll Eyes

I just spent a good few seconds and more doing the same thing with that post, tinners.  Roll Eyes
Logged

Green. Always green.
Don Basilio
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 2682


Era solo un mio sospetto


« Reply #352 on: 17:45:15, 24-01-2008 »

Since Susan Doris has raised the subject:

Of Man's first disobedience, and the fruit
Of that forbidden tree whose mortal taste
Brought death into the World, and all our woe,
With loss of Eden, till one greater Man
Restore us, and regain the blissful seat,
Sing, Heavenly Muse, that, on the secret top
Of Oreb, or of Sinai, didst inspire
That shepherd who first taught the chosen seed
In the beginning how the heavens and earth
Rose out of Chaos: or, if Sion hill
Delight thee more, and Siloa's brook that flowed
Fast by the oracle of God, I thence
Invoke thy aid to my adventurous song,
That with no middle flight intends to soar
Above th' Aonian mount, while it pursues
Things unattempted yet in prose or rhyme.
And chiefly thou, O Spirit, that dost prefer
Before all temples th' upright heart and pure,
Instruct me, for thou know'st; thou from the first
Wast present, and, with mighty wings outspread,
Dove-like sat'st brooding on the vast Abyss,
And mad'st it pregnant: what in me is dark
Illumine, what is low raise and support;
That, to the height of this great argument,
I may assert Eternal Providence,
And justify the ways of God to men.

I love the bit "dove-like sat'st brooding".  When Milton does use English monosyllables they can certainly tell.  Particuarly the last six words of the passage.  And the OTT thing about the whole thing is that it is one sentence, culminating in those six simple words with such rhetorical power to make Philip Pullman and Empson think Milton has produced the best argument for God, whereas I have my definite doubts.

The reference to the Holy Spirit "brooding over the waters" is from Genesis, and feminist theologians have rightly pointed out that the first image for God in the text of the Bible is a female image of a nesting mother bird.
Logged

To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
time_is_now
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 4653



« Reply #353 on: 17:56:08, 24-01-2008 »

It's a rather odd simile, though, isn't it? Have you ever seen a brooding dove 'with mighty wings outspread'??
Logged

The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
Don Basilio
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 2682


Era solo un mio sospetto


« Reply #354 on: 18:16:21, 24-01-2008 »

It's two different metaphors, both connected by the idea of birds.  "Mighty wings outspread" conveys the idea of power, omnipotence etc.  "Dove-like sat'st brooding" is the gentle, creative, nurturing side.

O, I forgot to mention it's the opening of Paradise Lost.
Logged

To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
SusanDoris
****
Posts: 267



« Reply #355 on: 18:22:00, 24-01-2008 »

#352 Don Basilio

Thank you for posting that. If I remember correctly, when friends did 'A' level English (late 1950s) , they studied some of it, but it was so complicated that they could only cover certain areas. But when listening to it, and to the voice reading the post - and I slowed it down from its usual 185 to 100! - it has a grand sort of power to it. Do you know parts by heart? May I ask when and what you studied in poetry? Maybe you have mentioned this before but as I have only just joined this thread I would have missed it.
Logged
oliver sudden
Admin/Moderator Group
*****
Posts: 6411



« Reply #356 on: 18:27:33, 24-01-2008 »

'Thou from the first wast present' is Biblical too, isn't it? Ab aeterno ordinata sum, I mean.
Logged
time_is_now
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 4653



« Reply #357 on: 18:32:46, 24-01-2008 »

'Thou from the first wast present' is Biblical too, isn't it? Ab aeterno ordinata sum, I mean.
Reminds me of a passage from Geoffrey Hill's The Triumph of Love:

                            The intellectual
beauty of Bradwardine's thesis rests
in what it springs from: the Creator's grace
praecedentem tempore et natura ['Strewth!!!
already present in time as in nature'? - ED]
and in what it returns to - our arrival
at a necessary salvation. So much
for the good news.
Logged

The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
Don Basilio
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 2682


Era solo un mio sospetto


« Reply #358 on: 18:47:03, 24-01-2008 »

Susan - I did my degree in English a long, long time ago before anyone had discovered a thing called structuralism

My dad did Paradise Lost for the equivalent of O levels in the late 30s.  I think he said he only did Books 1 & 2.  He would wake me up for school (the days before central heating) quoting bits of it, or from Henry V.

To be absolutely honest, I think I have not read much more than the first two books!

Ollie -  I am not sure , but I would think that a theological concept like "thou from the first" is not to be found in the magnificently mythological first chapter of Genesis.

I have never heard of anyone reading Paradise Regained.
Logged

To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
oliver sudden
Admin/Moderator Group
*****
Posts: 6411



« Reply #359 on: 19:01:54, 24-01-2008 »

I was thinking more Proverbs 8:23...

http://mysite.verizon.net/missale/dec08.html
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 22 23 [24] 25 26 ... 63
  Print  
 
Jump to: