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Author Topic: Poetry Appreciation Thread.  (Read 19823 times)
pim_derks
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« Reply #585 on: 09:12:17, 17-04-2008 »

Many thanks for that piece of news, George.

Yes, Don Basisilio: Betjeman had odd ways of complimenting women:

She sat with a Warwick Deeping,
Her legs curl'd round in a ring,
Like a beautiful panther sleeping,
Yet always ready to spring.


I don't think many people nowadays will know who Warwick Deeping was. They'll probably think it's a dog breed.

For the glossary:

Warwick Deeping: expensive dog for upper class ladies who like to sit on chaises longues with an animal friend.
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"People hate anything well made. It gives them a guilty conscience." John Betjeman
George Garnett
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« Reply #586 on: 11:09:08, 17-04-2008 »

Warwick Deeping: expensive dog for upper class ladies who like to sit on chaises longues with an animal friend.

 Cheesy Cheesy


 Man with a Warwick Deeping

(I had to look up who/what Warwick Deeping was.)

You obviously have a great knowledge and love of certain things which seem quintessentially British, Pim: John Betjeman, English Light Music from the 1950s, British films from the 1940s and 1950s and so on. I'm intrigued how someone who was born and brought up in The Netherlands (and is under 30 too?) came to know and like these things. They seem to be the sort of things that notoriously 'don't travel' and yet, rather wonderfully, they obviously have. I hope it isn't impertinent to ask, and please don't feel obliged to respond, but I'd be intrigued to know how and why.
« Last Edit: 11:18:52, 17-04-2008 by George Garnett » Logged
Mary Chambers
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« Reply #587 on: 13:10:09, 17-04-2008 »

I have an idea I may have posted this before, but John Betjeman's poems about Myfanwy Piper (wife of John Piper, and librettist of three Britten operas) are in much the same vein as Joan Hunter-Dunne. He was in love with her, in a chaste and distant way, and addressed her in one letter as "My darling Prefect". Here's a taster of Myfanwy, imagining scenes from her childhood, and a link.

Then what sardines in half-lighted passages!
Locking of fingers in long hide-and-seek.
You will protect me, my silken Myfanwy,
Ring leader, tom-boy, and chum to the weak.


http://www.sanjeev.net/poetry/betjeman-john/myfanwy-165312.html

(For those unfamiliar with English children's parties, "Sardines" refers to a party game, not fish.)

There is also Myfanwy at Oxford, just as imaginary:

Willowy banks of a willowy Cherwell,
Willowy figure with lips apart,
Strong and willowy, strong to pillow me,
Gold Myfanwy, kisses and art.


She later commented that this poem was "All wrong, factually".
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martle
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« Reply #588 on: 13:29:46, 17-04-2008 »

Warwick Deeping:

I always thought it was a type of old-fashioned chair.



'Darling, be a dear and bring the Deeping in from the garden, would you?

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Green. Always green.
George Garnett
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« Reply #589 on: 14:40:27, 17-04-2008 »

                             

"To go with a chilled Chablis I'd definitely recommend the Warwick Deeping. A dependably unhurried cheese but not without a certain discreet playfulness."
« Last Edit: 14:43:07, 17-04-2008 by George Garnett » Logged
time_is_now
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« Reply #590 on: 21:51:07, 17-04-2008 »

Thank you Mr. Derks - I did not know that marvellous poem!
Only 'I'? Did your other half know it already?
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
Don Basilio
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Era solo un mio sospetto


« Reply #591 on: 23:19:15, 17-04-2008 »

I have an idea I may have posted this before, but John Betjeman's poems about Myfanwy Piper

Belbroughton Road is bonny where early blooms the spray
Of prunus and forsythia across the public way.

Quoted from memory.

Myfanwy must have been a very special person to inspire to utterly different (though deeply English) creative artists as BB and JB.  Death in Venice and The Turn of the Screw are impressive libretti.

I was at a reception at the London art gallery this week when a retired Bulgarian picture framer, who claimed to have known John and Myfanwy Piper, apparently tried to pick me up.  He embarrassed me by explaining the usage of Bulgar in English usage.  I may not have understood him due to the heavy Bulgarian accent and the dry white wine, on which, as far as I can make out, the art world depends.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
Don Basilio
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Era solo un mio sospetto


« Reply #592 on: 10:16:12, 18-04-2008 »

A Bulgarian picture framer, to clear things up, is a person originating from Bulgaria who frames, or framed when he was working, pictures.  He claimed to have framed pictures by John Piper.  John P was a fellow church trotter with JB, and designed sets for BB.  I am afraid that I suspect BB's views of JB's verse may have been as trenchant as his views about Richard Strauss.  (see Rosenkavalier thread.)

I am going to post my photos of one of Betjeman's favourite churches over on the Cathedrals and Churches thread.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
Mary Chambers
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« Reply #593 on: 10:23:26, 18-04-2008 »

A Bulgarian picture framer, to clear things up, is a person originating from Bulgaria who frames, or framed when he was working, pictures. 

What do you think we thought it meant, DB?  Grin

My own very tenuous link with the Pipers is that my brother once lived in a flat belonging to their daughter Clarissa, in Oakley Street in Chelsea. I stayed there occasionally, surrounded by modern paintings which at the time I assumed were by Piper, though looking back I think they probably weren't. The bedroom I stayed in was dramatically red and white, and quite unlike anything I'd seen before. I was very young and very impressed.
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time_is_now
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« Reply #594 on: 12:35:08, 18-04-2008 »

A Bulgarian picture framer, to clear things up, is a person originating from Bulgaria who frames, or framed when he was working, pictures. 

What do you think we thought it meant, DB?  Grin
This is getting too hilarious for words! Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy I think I may be at least partly to blame: I had messaged DonB to say that I kept misreading his phrase as 'Bulgarian picture farmer'. (In fact, I still do: it just seems to be one of those things.)

I'm not a great fan of cheeses (Cheddar does me just fine), but George's Cheese Impresario has some very enticing-looking baguettes, as well as a hairstyle that looks like a wig - but who would choose a wig in such a silly style/colour?

Bulgarian lesson 15: Children, repeat after me, "The baguettes of the impresario are a joy to behold, and are stored in the bureau of my aunt."
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
George Garnett
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« Reply #595 on: 12:56:32, 18-04-2008 »

Oh I seeee. I thought he only framed Bulgarian pictures. I then couldn't understand what he was doing trying to frame a John Piper unless it was something to do with Mrs Malaprop's "But Sir Anthony, all men are Bulgarians".



(A pedant pre-empts: Wasn't it Bavarians?)
« Last Edit: 14:37:49, 18-04-2008 by George Garnett » Logged
pim_derks
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« Reply #596 on: 12:27:18, 19-04-2008 »

You obviously have a great knowledge and love of certain things which seem quintessentially British, Pim: John Betjeman, English Light Music from the 1950s, British films from the 1940s and 1950s and so on. I'm intrigued how someone who was born and brought up in The Netherlands (and is under 30 too?) came to know and like these things. They seem to be the sort of things that notoriously 'don't travel' and yet, rather wonderfully, they obviously have. I hope it isn't impertinent to ask, and please don't feel obliged to respond, but I'd be intrigued to know how and why.

Many thanks for the compliment, George. Wink

It's all a matter of coincidence.

Betjeman. We used to have a lovely little programme on Dutch television called De Dode Dichters Almanak ("The Dead Poets Almanac"). Every Sunday evening a poem was featured on this programme. Just one poem by a poet who wasn't alive anymore. Sometimes the length of an episode was less than a minute. One evening, somewhere in the late 1990s, I was watching this programme and the title of the featured poem was Hertfordshire and it was recited by a very funny man who was sitting on a park bench. It was John Betjeman. I thought: I have to remember that name. A few months later a Dutch radio station broadcasted those old records he made (with music by Tim Parker). I found these recordings very entertaining so I decided to order a book of poems by Betjeman and the rest is history. Wink

I know remember that the Dutch translation of that Betjeman poem was published in a Dutch television guide in the week when it was shown on television. I'll see if I can find it. I must have saved it somewhere.

Light Music. Television again. Also late 1990s. I saw a concert on Belgian television. I don’t remember which orchestra played, but I suppose that it was an orchestra from Belgium. It was a light music concert and Clive Swift was the presenter. He had become famous because Keeping up Appearances had become a hit on Dutch and Belgian television. “What a lovely music!” I thought. Some time later I found a CD with light music and I became a fan for life. I hasten to add that I already was a fan of Mantovani. I found those wonderful old Decca recordings in the record collection of my parents when I was ten year old or so.

British films. Well, sometimes you meet a nice person on a message board who’s willing to give you some advice:

http://r3ok.myforum365.com/index.php?topic=1201.msg35618;topicseen#msg35618

I’m intrigued by your point on things that don’t travel. I think it has everything to do with meeting the right people. Some composers, writers or painters are just unknown in some countries because they don’t know influential people there. But probably there are also other reasons. Perhaps I should open a new thread on this subject?
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"People hate anything well made. It gives them a guilty conscience." John Betjeman
George Garnett
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« Reply #597 on: 13:57:48, 19-04-2008 »

Thank you for your post, Pim. I appeciated that.

And just to demonstrate that cross-channel cultural cross-fertilisation is most definitely a two-way business I can report that, as from last night, I am now a great fan of Loeki de Leeuw. He's great  Cheesy Cheesy. Lot's of clips on Youtube.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmR6yJqOEgI&NR=1   
« Last Edit: 14:05:02, 19-04-2008 by George Garnett » Logged
pim_derks
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« Reply #598 on: 22:24:40, 19-04-2008 »

I am now a great fan of Loeki de Leeuw. He's great  Cheesy Cheesy. Lot's of clips on Youtube.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmR6yJqOEgI&NR=1 

Yes, Loeki is great, George! Smiley

He appeared on Dutch television for the first time in 1972 to introduce commercials and he was last seen on TV in 2004. A year later, Loeki became a figure in the attraction Carnaval Festival, opened in 1984 and created by Loeki's creator Joop Geesink, in the Dutch amusement park De Efteling. This attraction has always been a bit controversial because some people think that Geesink stole the idea from Disney's It's a Small World. I don't know if this is true, but recently I discovered that the Bavarian television also used a lion puppet at the start of commercials. This was in the late 1950s. Perhaps Geesink was just an imitator, but he made some very fine commercial puppet films and I'll see if I can find them somewhere online.

I found a Carnaval Festival clip on Youtube. You can see Loeki at:

0:51  Loeki in Holland
1:07  Loeki in Paris (fountain)
1:26  London (Loeki wearing a bowler and umbrella)
1:43  bagpipes!
2:13  Loeki climbing a German mountain
2:35  Italy (note the Loeki bust and his little duck friend Guusje wearing a laurel wreath)
3:35  Japan (Loeki in Samurai costume)
4:00  Loeki in a Chinese circus
4:11  Alaska (Loeki catching a cold in an igloo)
4:49  Loeki in Africa
5:23  Loeki in Mexico
6:01  Loeki waving goodbye (he's wearing a T-shirt with the letter L on it)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BugbVTE3H1s

I loved this show when I was a little kid. Cheesy
« Last Edit: 09:07:16, 20-04-2008 by pim_derks » Logged

"People hate anything well made. It gives them a guilty conscience." John Betjeman
MabelJane
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When in doubt, wash.


« Reply #599 on: 23:59:53, 30-04-2008 »

Some of you may be interested to read the obituary of a neighbour of ours who died recently. I've just been dipping into the 2 books of his poetry he gave us. Perhaps I should chose one or two to quote here in his memory. I'll have to read them again before I can decide on which to choose.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/professor-brian-cox-english-scholar-poet-and-editor-of-critical-quarterly-whose-black-papers-sparked-debate-on-education-817250.html

Sadly, he was diagnosed with a brain tumour about 6 years ago but until up to a year ago, the medication was effectively stopping it in its tracks. I didn't know him very well but when I saw him a fortnight ago, back at home, I was shocked and saddened by how ill he looked. I hadn't realised until reading his obituary quite how significant his work was, both in education and poetry. 
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Merely corroborative detail, intended to give artistic verisimilitude to an otherwise bald and unconvincing narrative.
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