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Author Topic: Poetry Appreciation Thread.  (Read 19823 times)
martle
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« Reply #825 on: 21:52:34, 07-10-2008 »

Yes, thanks! Hopkins I've always found difficult but completely fascinating. I tried to set this poem (possibly his most famous) as a student; but I didn't do it very well. How could you?

The Windhover

I CAUGHT this morning morning’s minion, king- 
  dom of daylight’s dauphin, dapple-dawn-drawn Falcon, in his riding 
  Of the rolling level underneath him steady air, and striding 
High there, how he rung upon the rein of a wimpling wing 
In his ecstasy! then off, off forth on swing,         
  As a skate’s heel sweeps smooth on a bow-bend: the hurl and gliding 
  Rebuffed the big wind. My heart in hiding 
Stirred for a bird,—the achieve of; the mastery of the thing! 
 
Brute beauty and valour and act, oh, air, pride, plume, here 
  Buckle! AND the fire that breaks from thee then, a billion         
Times told lovelier, more dangerous, O my chevalier! 
 
  No wonder of it: shéer plód makes plough down sillion 
Shine, and blue-bleak embers, ah my dear, 
  Fall, gall themselves, and gash gold-vermillion.
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Green. Always green.
Ron Dough
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« Reply #826 on: 22:54:22, 07-10-2008 »

Not an easy one to set at all, martle, though Tippett made a pretty decent stab at it in 1942, did he not?
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Don Basilio
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Era solo un mio sospetto


« Reply #827 on: 09:23:55, 08-10-2008 »

Just re-read No worst there is none.  I never appreciated it when I did A level.  Reading it now it is magnificent.

But...

I was reading Philip Larkin yesterday, and for an account of staring into the abyss, he is far more chilling to me, through comparative understatement.  (The deep blue air, that is Nothing, and leads nowhere and is endless.)

By comparison Hopkins could be taken as enjoying the rhetoric a bit too much.

I am reminded of Samuel Johnson's dismissal of some minor religious poet "Penitence is not at leisure for cadence or epithets."
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
Turfan Fragment
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Formerly known as Chafing Dish


« Reply #828 on: 09:08:26, 10-10-2008 »

I just bought a book of poems by Yannis Ritsos (translations into English). Anyone know his work? He distinguishes himself with a Lenin-Prize 1977, and providing the inspiration for M. Spahlinger's Apo do for string quartet. (among other distinctions)

A man smiles by himself in the dark,
perhaps because he can see in the dark,
perhaps because he can see the dark.

-oOo-

FORBIDDEN GROUND

He always searched, without reason, without need,
In the ashes he found little inhabited islands
with their old churches full of wind,
Outside one of the churches, there was a chair.
Down below, on the rocks, big sea-urchins
shadowed by a standstill cloud. Afterwards,
he had nothing to add. It was obvious that he was carefully
avoiding to mention the word death.

-oOo-

Don't ask how long it will last -- it won't; others make the decisions.
Turn the table upside down; extinguish the lamp. The mirror
is full of bullet holes. Don't look inside.
I shall look -- the other answered -- through these holes.
Each time I see my stolen face again, intact.
« Last Edit: 02:54:56, 14-10-2008 by Turfan Fragment » Logged

SusanDoris
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« Reply #829 on: 11:35:24, 13-10-2008 »

For those who love poetry - I suggest you look away now!



A Skipping rhyme

I am skipping! I'm skipping a 'bump'*
(*Turn the rope twice with only one jump)
And I'm trying to increase my score.
But it's hard for an oldie like me,
Though I think I'm as fit as can be,
To improve on my PB of four.

Composed - If I can use the word - while out for my weekly walk!
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Turfan Fragment
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« Reply #830 on: 02:17:21, 15-10-2008 »

Do you do one skip per syllable or one skip per stressed syllable?

Looks like a good 'mantra', SD. How do your knees feel after 20 minutes of this?!
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Don Basilio
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Era solo un mio sospetto


« Reply #831 on: 15:06:09, 15-10-2008 »

Here's John Betjeman in Parliament Hill Fields

Oh the after tram ride quiet, when we heard a mile beyond
Silver music from the bandstand, barking dogs by Highgate Pond;
Up the hill where stucco houses in Virginia creeper drown –
And my childish wave of pity, seeing children carrying down
Sheaves of drooping dandelions to the courts of Kentish Town.


And here's Thom Gunn in Parliament Hill Fields (in his punctuation free poem, Autobiography)

a green dry prospect
distant babble of children
and beyond, distinct at
the end of the glow
St Paul’s like a stone thimble

longing so hard to make
inclusions that the longing
has become   in memory
an inclusion


I always wondered about Thom with an H.  According to Wiki, his full name was Thomson.  It's a suprising use of the word inclusions.  I will have to think what it means.

Anyone who can write a poem called Last Days at Teddington has something in common with Betjeman
« Last Edit: 15:33:07, 15-10-2008 by Don Basilio » Logged

To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
SusanDoris
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« Reply #832 on: 15:23:08, 15-10-2008 »

Do you do one skip per syllable or one skip per stressed syllable?

Looks like a good 'mantra', SD. How do your knees feel after 20 minutes of this?!

Well, I haven't actually tried skipping to it; it's more about skipping rather than for skipping, but I shall certainly try it out next time I skip!

Fortunately, my knees do not give me any trouble at all and they never have to put up with more than five minutes or so. Mostly I walk - always wearing good trainers.
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time_is_now
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« Reply #833 on: 15:48:30, 15-10-2008 »

I always wondered about Thom with an H.  According to Wiki, his full name was Thomson.
That's what he always said, but I think it's now been discovered that he was not christened 'Thomson'. He changed the spelling of Tom in his twenties I think, to reflect his mother's surname. She left his father when he and his brother were boys. The two of them found her when she killed herself a few years later. He didn't write about her until near the end of his own life, in two poems that appeared in his last published collection, Boss Cupid:


My Mother's Pride

She dramatized herself
Without thought of the dangers.
But 'Never pay attention,' she said,
'To the opinions of strangers.'

And when I stole from a counter,
'You wouldn't accept a present
From a tradesman.' But I think I might have:
I had the greed of a peasant.

She was proud of her ruthless wit
And the smallest ears in London.
'Only conceited children are shy.'
I am made by her, and undone.


The Gas-poker

Forty-eight years ago
- Can it be forty-eight
Since then? - they forced the door
Which she had barricaded
With a full bureau's weight
Lest anyone find, as they did,
What she had blocked it for.

She had blocked the doorway so,
To keep the children out.
In her red dressing-gown
She wrote notes, all night busy
Pushing the things about,
Thinking till she was dizzy,
Before she had lain down.

The children went to and fro
On the harsh winter lawn
Repeating their lament,
A burden, to each other
In the December dawn,
Elder and younger brother,
Till they knew what it meant.

Knew all there was to know.
Coming back off the grass
To the room of her release,
They who had been her treasures
Knew to turn off the gas,
Take the appropriate measures,
Telephone the police.

One image from the flow
Sticks in the stubborn mind:
A sort of backwards flute.
The poker that she held up
Breathed from the holes aligned
Into her mouth till, filled up
By its music, she was mute.


I like the double meaning of 'burden' in the second poem. (Gunn is very sensitised to the meanings of words - like the 'inclusions' that you mention.) And I love the rhyme 'London/undone' in the first poem.

Gunn said that he finally found himself able to write 'The Gas-poker' when he decided to narrate the children's discovery in the third person. I suppose, unlike the mother described in the first poem, Gunn is refusing to dramatise himself here. But it's quite clear by the final stanza that the poem is about him (his is the 'stubborn mind' in which the image sticks).
« Last Edit: 16:07:44, 15-10-2008 by time_is_now » Logged

The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
Mary Chambers
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« Reply #834 on: 18:07:59, 15-10-2008 »

I think that is just about the most distressing poem I've ever read. I hope it helped him.
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Turfan Fragment
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« Reply #835 on: 19:40:12, 15-10-2008 »

More from Yannis Ritsos:

Evening Procession

Mager earth, very meager, burnt bushes, stones;
we loved these stones, we worked them. Time passes.
Resplendent sunsets. A cherry-glow on the windowpanes.
Behind the panes, the flower pots, unmarried girls.
Mists rise from the olive grove. When evening falls,
the processing of the veiled ones ascends behind the cypress trees;
they walk a little stiffly, with an ancient, sad pride;
it's immediately clear from the walk: their knees
are marble, broken, stuck together with cement.

November, 1967-January 1968
(wot, he worked on it for 2-3 months?!)
Translation: N.C. Germanacos
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Evan Johnson
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« Reply #836 on: 20:31:42, 15-10-2008 »

Not an easy one to set at all, martle, though Tippett made a pretty decent stab at it in 1942, did he not?

I think anyone who sets Hopkins to music should be taken out immediately and shot.  If there ever were words that needed music less...

(and yes, I've done it too, but I was young and foolish)

TF: Lovely; thank you.  I will have to investigate Ritsos.
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Turfan Fragment
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« Reply #837 on: 21:08:59, 15-10-2008 »

I think anyone who sets Hopkins to music should be taken out immediately and shot.  If there ever were words that needed music less...
Evan, ever the radical channels Spahlinger, who said sth similar about Friedrich Hölderlin and Paul Celan. Allusions to violence for the sake of aesthetic inviolability.

 Wink

TF: Lovely; thank you.  I will have to investigate Ritsos.
I got tons more where that came from. Just found a book of his Collected Poems at Walden Pond books in Oakland, CA. Everything from 10-20pp poems from the perspectives of Greek/Trojan mythical figures ("Helen" is a favorite of mine, but I haven't read all) to briefer outcroppings such as the ones just cited.
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time_is_now
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« Reply #838 on: 21:15:42, 15-10-2008 »

Walden Pond books in Oakland, CA
Huh Shocked
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
richard barrett
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« Reply #839 on: 21:40:09, 15-10-2008 »

Spahlinger, who said sth similar about Friedrich Hölderlin and Paul Celan

... and of course was WRONG.
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