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eruanto
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« on: 21:54:34, 16-07-2007 » |
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There is a photo of Elgar 'recording a premiere' at the podium in July's issue of BBC Music (page 13). In fact here it is:  Aside from the fact that he looks as grumpy as he possibly could, it was the size of his baton that amazed me. It's HUGE!! Must be twice as long as any we see used today. So, what's the history of the size of the all-important stick? |
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aaron cassidy
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« Reply #1 on: 22:02:37, 16-07-2007 » |
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 The record for the world's largest baton is currently held by Kenton J. Hetrick, who on 14 October 2006 conducted the Harvard University Band in the introduction to "Also Sprach Zarathustra" ( could it have been anything else?) with a baton 10 feet long |
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« Last Edit: 22:27:26, 16-07-2007 by aaron cassidy »
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increpatio
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« Reply #2 on: 22:10:39, 16-07-2007 » |
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So, what's the history of the size of the all-important stick?
Length *and* girth please! |
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #3 on: 22:15:49, 16-07-2007 » |
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Sir Adrian Boult used a long baton too, not to mention a ramrod straight military bearing...  Though his baton seems to have shrunk a little with the passing years...  (It was a huge shock seeing Boulez conduct for the first time: no baton, no score (at least not for Le Sacre) no beat even as such - it was if he were playing the whole orchestra like an instrument.) |
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richard barrett
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« Reply #4 on: 22:18:08, 16-07-2007 » |
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Though his baton seems to have shrunk a little with the passing years...
I suppose we all have that to look forward to... (oops! heavily gendered construct there!) |
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Il Grande Inquisitor
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« Reply #5 on: 22:21:05, 16-07-2007 » |
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Gergiev, who often conducts without a baton, went through a phase a couple of years ago where he conducted with what looked suspiciously like a toothpick!  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYnzgHgYAp8 |
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Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency
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perfect wagnerite
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« Reply #6 on: 22:24:11, 16-07-2007 » |
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Sir Adrian Boult used a long baton too, not to mention a ramrod straight military bearing... Though his baton seems to have shrunk a little with the passing years... (It was a huge shock seeing Boulez conduct for the first time: no baton, no score (at least not for Le Sacre) no beat even as such - it was if he were playing the whole orchestra like an instrument.) Sir Adrian in action - complete with long baton - can be seen at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDL5hiFX-pUHenry Wood also favoured a longer baton, apparently. |
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At every one of these [classical] concerts in England you will find rows of weary people who are there, not because they really like classical music, but because they think they ought to like it. (Shaw, Don Juan in Hell)
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Il Grande Inquisitor
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« Reply #7 on: 22:25:44, 16-07-2007 » |
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There used to be a display case of batons in the Royal Festival Hall, where I seem to recall Boult and Beecham having the longest ones.
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Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency
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Colin Holter
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« Reply #8 on: 22:56:34, 16-07-2007 » |
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(It was a huge shock seeing Boulez conduct for the first time: no baton, no score (at least not for Le Sacre) no beat even as such - it was if he were playing the whole orchestra like an instrument.) Supposedly Boulez derides use of the baton in his conducting workshops. He claims (I'm told) to prefer having his "ten batons" at his disposal at all times. However, as the Department of Homeland Security's web site currently shows a threat level no higher than the now-customary yellow ("Elevated"), I think we can feel free to continue to conduct in the manner of our choice without fear of reprisal from freedom-hating terrorists like Boulez. |
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George Garnett
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« Reply #9 on: 00:12:36, 17-07-2007 » |
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There used to be a display case of batons in the Royal Festival Hall, where I seem to recall Boult and Beecham having the longest ones.
I made a specific point of searching for it, post-refurbishment, IGI, and couldn't find it. A great disappointment. My recollection (oh dear, <sigh>, there really is no other way of putting this) is that Boult won in the length stakes but Beecham's was definitely thicker. A bluddy great ebony thing IIRC with a silver handle or something, wasn't it? I'm sure I never saw him using it in any of the films of him conducting. Aaron's wonderful picture above is very scary. I swear that if you look at it for any length of time the baton MOVES. |
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« Last Edit: 00:45:10, 17-07-2007 by George Garnett »
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aaron cassidy
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« Reply #10 on: 00:42:15, 17-07-2007 » |
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And here you can see the great batonless master teaching a poor unsuspecting thing how to dangle one's conducting paddles just so, so that beat three appears completely indistinguishable from a brief but very real seizure:  (As a conductor myself, I'm generally in favor of the no baton approach (though there are times when a baton is most certainly warranted, even in contemporary chamber music, and recently I've been thinking that I think I'll use a baton (my favorite one of my three is 12", since you asked) more frequently), but I'm really quite baffled at the prevalence of the knock-off Boulez approach. I've seen so many young conductors w/ exactly the same goofy, platypus paddles, which, okay, fine, are easy to follow, but what's with the bizarro (and utterly indecipherable) beat three wiggle? Boulez only does it sporadically, in my experience, but his pupils do it every chance they get. It's really quite strange.) |
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« Last Edit: 01:08:13, 17-07-2007 by aaron cassidy »
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time_is_now
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« Reply #11 on: 14:16:23, 17-07-2007 » |
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Isn't that Thora Hird gurning away in the background with the limp wrist? |
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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pim_derks
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« Reply #12 on: 14:20:25, 17-07-2007 » |
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Fritz Reiner was famous for using a very long baton:  Friz Reiner fishing at Lake Michigan:  I remember seeing a film in which Sir Thomas Beecham is making jokes about an "automatic baton". Eduard van Beinum conducted with a baton during is early years as a conductor, but he gave it up later. Another thing I would like to add is you can not conduct properly when you're wearing a coat. You have to take it off, just like Sir Edward Elgar always did: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpDP9VTamZY&mode=related&search="Good morning, gentlemen."  |
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"People hate anything well made. It gives them a guilty conscience." John Betjeman
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TimR-J
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« Reply #13 on: 14:49:54, 17-07-2007 » |
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Of course, Lully's was so big it killed him.  |
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ahinton
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« Reply #14 on: 17:18:11, 17-07-2007 » |
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Though his baton seems to have shrunk a little with the passing years...
I suppose we all have that to look forward to... (oops! heavily gendered construct there!) Indeed! And that's not your first in the past 24 hours or so. You really must be more careful, Richard! In the meantime, however, I wonder what some - er - "members" of the femmunist musicologist sorority might make of such constructs. Anyway, even if those of us who possess batons may have to look forward to their shrinkage with the passing years, size (as they say) isn't necessarily everything; the effectiveness of the baton's movements surely remains an important consideration (but then what do I know? - I'm not even a conductor, let alone a musicologist)... Best, Alistair |
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