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Author Topic: Instrument makers  (Read 618 times)
strinasacchi
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« Reply #15 on: 00:48:36, 12-11-2007 »

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As I see it, the "Ganassi" recorder was invented in the 1970's by several makers working independently, the Morgan model achieving fame because it was the most copied by other makers.

(quote from Adrian Brown's website)

Interesting how ideas can get corrupted even in a relatively short space of time.  Even things that originated from a genuine, traceable source.  By way of example: there's a lovely bow in the Ashmolean that everyone calls the No.19 (it's labelled no.19 in the display case).  It's from about 1720, and is very elegant.  It's also fairly accessible to measure and just look at.

Many bowmakers do a No.19 model, but they vary enormously.  Some makers don't seem to have seen the original, and have worked from copies, or copies of copies.  The most obvious (and egregious) difference is that the original has a fixed, clip-in style of frog - whereas most contemporary copies I've seen have a conventional screw frog.  This makes a big difference in how a bow balances and creates tone (clip-in frogs tend to give a stronger, more direct sound - the disadvantage is that it's more difficult to control the hair tension in varying climatic conditions).  The version on the website I mentioned earlier is the only one I know of that truly copies the original - because the maker has actually made the effort to go back to the original and study it afresh.

(Not unlike playing from facsimiles of early editions or manuscript, now that I think of it...)
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #16 on: 09:29:37, 12-11-2007 »

Many bowmakers do a No.19 model, but they vary enormously.

This French maker is responsible for one of the most spectacular diversions from the model although it certainly has its own charm:



One of my pet peeves there is the double holes on recorders and chalumeaus. Practically every reproduction recorder I've seen has double holes for the right 3rd and 4th fingers (R3 and R4). Hardly any originals have them; most have no double holes, some have them just for R4.

Chalumeaus very often have them for L3, R1, R3 and R4. None of the Baroque chalumeaus or clarinets to survive has double holes anywhere but R4 - except one three-keyed clarinet, which has those double holes and so most chalumeaus have them. That's Otto Steinkopf's fault I'm afraid...
« Last Edit: 09:41:11, 12-11-2007 by oliver sudden » Logged
richard barrett
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« Reply #17 on: 10:02:28, 12-11-2007 »

One of my pet peeves there is the double holes on recorders and chalumeaus.

But there are some multiphonics you can't get without them!

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That's Otto Steinkopf's fault I'm afraid...

Yes, but Otto was doing a pretty good job at a time when there wasn't much to go on but one's own intuition, no? And he played them all too!
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #18 on: 10:10:06, 12-11-2007 »

I think what he was doing was trying to make things as practical as possible to encourage uptake... unfortunately some such compromises (not necessarily all of them his of course) are still waiting to be properly undone. Tuning holes on 'baroque' brass instruments, anyone?

The double holes on chalumeau for example mean that for the two sizes where there isn't a surviving historical model some makers don't feel compelled to make one where cross-fingerings work. If you need the cross-fingerings to work you need to think very carefully about the width of the bore; if you don't care about the cross-fingerings beyond the most obvious standard ones you can do whatever you like there and the instrument will still work - but the sound will be quite different.
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #19 on: 14:16:45, 12-11-2007 »

Although this kind of personal agonising is probably laudable, I can't really see the problem about renaissance recorders?  A very decent spattering of original instruments survive, several even in playable condition. There's also abundantly clear documentation in Praetorius (Syntagma Musicum) listing sizes and pitches, use in full consort and broken consort, and with his magnificently scrupulous illustrations alongside.  Although Praetorius is at the opening of the C17th, the "encyclopaedic" nature of his study was effectively an overview of practice in the fifty years preceding.  (In fact, he ironically runs down the curtain on most of the instruments he describes, as baroque trends quickly killed-off "consort music".  I wonder if he was aware that it was dying, and that he was documenting the last flowering of this tradition?)

My own caveat on renaissance recorders wouldn't be the bore-size etc (which is ultimately a moveable feast and varied all over Europe) but the use of "exotic" sizes of instrument.  I am not sure you could make much of a case for using anything lower than a tenor prior to 1530,  and all the garklein thingummies are entirely dependent on mentions in theoretical works only.  Having said that, Purcell's HAIL BRIGHT CECILIA HAIL has a trio of recorders in it (in one number), in which the bottom line is clearly negotiable only a bass recorder...  an instrument which must have been in the deepest doldrums by that date?  Since the oboists were clearly doubling on the two treble instruments, presumably a bassoonist picked-up the bass one?  Unless, of course, the bass line is really for the bassoon anyhow...

It throws up a wider question about the Early Music revival in general...  although all these instruments existed and are documented... how often were they actually played in normal day-to-day practice?   The luscious ear-candy of woodwind sounds to be heard on some realisations of Cavalli and Monteverdi operas  (which survive, ehem, in melody-line-&-figured-bass only in many cases, with no instrumentation marks at all) is certainly good for modern-day box-office sales...  but is it what a hard-nosed Neapolitan opera-theatre manager would have fielded for such a show?   Huh
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John W
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« Reply #20 on: 21:50:01, 18-04-2008 »

Is it a violin, harp or lyre?

Does it have a bow?

Copy of Celtic instrument 1742 on ebay

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Kittybriton
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« Reply #21 on: 03:37:05, 19-04-2008 »

It would appear to be a crwth (sans bow). Perhaps Antheil knows more about the instrument?
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #22 on: 04:07:59, 19-04-2008 »

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Is it a violin, harp or lyre?

None of the above  Smiley

It's a Welsh crwth.  Essentially it's a bardic instrument for accompanying your own singing.  There are two schools of thought about a playing position for it - some people play it cello-fashion between the knees, others hank a neck-strap under the tailpiece to help them play it under the chin like a fiddle.  The instrument even has a star player, at least in the "folk" vein - Cass Meurig.  There are substantial accounts of the instrument being used in Wales for minstrelsy.

Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crwth

I'm ashamed to say I even have one of these things - a modern reproduction prototype that was passed-on by several people who didn't want or need it, and ended-up in Reiner's Elephant's Graveyard of Unpopular and Unplayable Instruments.  The one I've got needs a new bridge designed - it's got a flat bridge right now.  This is (said the guy who made it) because all the strings were supposed to be bowed simultaneously (like a hurdy-gurdy) and the player allegedly played chords all the time.  Frankly this drove everyone who tried this copy nuts, and no-one wants to do that all the time.  Cass Meurig plays an instrument with a fiddle-shaped bridge, so you can play individual strings.  I'm not sure about the "authenticity" of either approach, but I have no plans to take up the instrument any time soon Smiley   The bridge is an odd thing on a crwth anyhow, because it also acts as the soundpost and goes straight through the soundholes to rest of the back of the instrument - there is no other soundpost inside.  Opinion divides as to whether the extra strings that don't run over the fingerboard (the pic above has one, but you can find examples with 2-3 of them - mine has 2) are supposed to be bowed as a bourdon, or plucked now and then with the thumb?  Or maybe both?

There are all kinds of elaborate theories that it's the last survivor of the medieval crotta or rote, but it's hard to prove.  Even harder to substantiate are claims that there's an unbroken line going back to the roman lyre (seems more likely that the vogue for classical civilisation in the Renaissance prompted the idea of trying to recreate lyres?)  I'd hesitate to jump in and make any assertion of that kind.  It's the kind of instrument that "looks the business" in medieval music performances, but actually hasn't much of a pedigree.  However, since no kind of standardisation of instruments of any kind existed prior to about the C15th anyhow, and most players probably made their own instruments (or souped them up, adding extra strings, new tunings, etc) it's not entirely impossible that something along these lines didn't exist?   There are pics, to be sure - but almost always of King David, who was said to have played some bowed thingy or other... translators are often guilty of inserting the name of an instrument of their own times, since they didn't know what he actually played (and didn't care either).   I've restrung mine (it arrived in my hands with overwound metal violin strings on it) with gut viola strings, and have used it to play tenor lines in Machaut chansons, in the absence of having anything better to use (I have a repro medieval fidel that played the other line, and a singer sang the top one).  Frankly it's too quiet for ensemble use, and is thus just gathering dust right now.

Perhaps our resident Welsh composers would care to create a new repertoire for the instrument? Smiley  Or perhaps, ehem, not Smiley
« Last Edit: 04:14:16, 19-04-2008 by Reiner Torheit » Logged

"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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