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ciaccona
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« on: 10:37:33, 14-02-2007 » |
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I hope this is an acceptable subject for these pages.
It has occurred to me that there may be string players around these pages who may have been plagued with my complaint, a stiffening of the bow arm, obviously caused by tension. Without tuition & advice I find myself at a loss as to appropriate action to rid myself of this menace.
I realise the solution is of course to relax the arm, easily said, but not so easy to achieve.
Any suggestions will be very gratefully received ( even the funny ones ! )
gamba
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Bryn
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« Reply #1 on: 10:47:33, 14-02-2007 » |
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I used to get a similar problem when drivng Leylad Atlantean buses with no power steering. It went soon after I changed to later models which were power assisted. What you need is a power assisted bow.
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« Last Edit: 13:50:04, 14-02-2007 by Bryn »
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #2 on: 11:02:05, 14-02-2007 » |
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Without tuition & advice In my experience there's nothing like bringing a trained eye and mind to bear on the subject. If your search for power steering proves fruitless then I suspect a teacher will be of more use to you than anything. |
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John W
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« Reply #3 on: 11:38:09, 14-02-2007 » |
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Gamba, this is to me a worthy subject to discuss, though I expect few here are close to the subject.
The term used in industry is WRULD or Work Related Upper Limb Disorder. This replaces the older term 'repetitive strain injury'.
I have some experience/knowledge on how to prevent WRULD in repetitive jobs on assembly lines etc but I'm less able to advise on treating a condition that is already evident. I will make some enquiries.
Meanwhile WRULD may be a useful keyword for you to do searches on the net, some government medical sites etc.
John W
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roslynmuse
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« Reply #4 on: 11:49:24, 14-02-2007 » |
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It is also worth checking with an osteopath that the problem isn't back related - I'm more used to seeing and recognising this problem in pianists; in my own case I had a sense of "heaviness" in the right arm, rather than tension (although it in turn could occasionally cause tension to build up), but quarterly manipulation of the back seems to keep it away.
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perfect wagnerite
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« Reply #5 on: 12:30:19, 14-02-2007 » |
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Hi Gamba
I'd agree with roslynmuse's advice about seeing an osteopath - my daughter, who is a trombonist, was suffering some pain in her slide arm and an osteopath diagnosed this as posture-related and was able to prescribe exercises that appear to have done the trick
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At every one of these [classical] concerts in England you will find rows of weary people who are there, not because they really like classical music, but because they think they ought to like it. (Shaw, Don Juan in Hell)
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #6 on: 22:06:13, 14-02-2007 » |
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Pianists suffer a lot from tensions. I think that a lot of it emotional and musical problems. When one knows exactly right sound one wants and not just plays loud all the time it sorts itself for me.
I was told play with the wait from your arms and it did not speak to me. I just dont' know why sometimes I play well and don't push hard with fingers and other times I can not find what is wrong.
If I play with good violinist I can usually hear what I am doing wrong. So it is good to play in ensembles.
I still think many problems are emotional in nature and come from insecurity.
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thompson1780
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« Reply #7 on: 00:57:08, 15-02-2007 » |
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The back is a good place to start to see if something is out of alignment.
It's a whole different ball game trying to work out how to stop yourself tensing. Thinking 'I mustn't tense' invariably gets you to tense.
First things first, every joint has a mid-point. Away from the instrument, just go floppy. Notice how the back of your hands continue the line of the back of your forearm? And your fingers are half curved. Using your left hand, push your hand so it moves at the wrist. Notice how your finger-tips still point in teh samedirection whatever you do.
You need to do these sort of exercises with each joint to fnd out where mid points are (places mid way between extremes of movement), and learn how joints move when adjoining and next but one joints move. It is just as important when placing fingers with teh left hand (Don't stretch a finger and make an un-natural shape move the arm or wrist to get the fingertip to the right place....)
Next is to stop thinking about movement when you are actually playing... !!!
It will probably sound stupid, but my advice is to place the bow on the string, and make sure you are holding it with all joints in a mid-position. Now imagine a conveyor belt pushing your bow one way and then the other. DON'T fool yourself that your arm is doing any of the pushing or pulling. The movement is coming from the contact point of bow hair and string.
The thought that something is doing it for you should remove tensions from muscles that are not supposed to do any work.
Good luck and have fun
Tommo
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Made by Thompson & son, at the Violin & c. the West end of St. Paul's Churchyard, LONDON
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ciaccona
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« Reply #8 on: 11:27:40, 15-02-2007 » |
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Thank you, one & all,
Firstly, Bryn. Re. the power- assisted bow. This would probably be rather noisy as the driving force would have to be a small jet engine. Well worth considering of course for the 'up' bow stroke. A serious problem however would be the additional noise generated by the need for reverse thrust to activate the 'down' stroke. Somehow I just can't help thinking this project may have limited appeal.
Otherwise, to the rest of you who inhabit the real world, I shall hope to gain some benefit from your generous advice, will experiment further & endeavour to rid myself of this pernicious affliction.
gratefully, gamba.
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richard barrett
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« Reply #9 on: 11:51:14, 15-02-2007 » |
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Sorry to hear about your problem, Gamba. I hope you get that sorted out. Like others here I would recommend some professional help. Nobody seems successfully to have implemented Bryn's solution for bowed strings, although if my good friend Veronika ever developed such problems all she'd need is one of these: http://logosfoundation.org/instrum_gwr/vitello.html |
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #10 on: 18:09:31, 15-02-2007 » |
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A lot of tension does come from the back and bad posture. I have a friend (viola) who had to retire early because of Repetative Injury.
Another friend (violin teacher) had tendonitis and went to Alexander technique man. She said she learnt a lot from the man and from her experience and she is a very good violinist now and a good teacher.
I am taking viola lessons myself now (only had two) and had a discussion with my teacher. Again we talked about using the upper arm and holding the bow lose.
Many people lift their shoulders which is not good.
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roslynmuse
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« Reply #11 on: 22:41:24, 15-02-2007 » |
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Like Janine!  |
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autoharp
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« Reply #12 on: 09:51:09, 17-02-2007 » |
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Thanks for the link, Richard - loved it ! (check it out everyone). Couldn't understand it, of course, so I sent it on to all my friends who wear white coats.
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #13 on: 12:45:58, 18-02-2007 » |
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I did check it, but I don't understand. I feel half witted.  |
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richard barrett
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« Reply #14 on: 14:52:20, 18-02-2007 » |
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Here are some pictures of more members of the robot orchestra in action. You may have thought the instruments were weird, but they're nothing compared to the humans who made them... http://logosfoundation.org/m&m.html |
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