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Author Topic: Absolute and universal standards in the appreciation of music  (Read 566 times)
Sydney Grew
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« on: 13:29:08, 12-05-2007 »

In the past we have stated that we like all persons of taste and discrimination adhere to objective and absolute standards, and we need not repeat our arguments here. But since we suspect many Members are still confused about this question, let us here consider and discuss what the perspicacious writer Edward Rothstein (some time chief music critic for the Times) has to say in his little book about the "inner life of music and mathematics."

"The judgement of beauty has an absolute aspect to it; beauty seems well suited to be a companion to truth. We feel beauty to be universal, beyond the reach of time or fashion or individual whim. There is something about beauty which is both private - because it involves silent feeling - and public - because it makes us feel as if it is revealing something universal. The judgement of beauty is not idiosyncratic - or so we think and feel - but something more fundamental. Beauty feels like an aspect of public knowledge. We may not actually assert that every one will agree with our proclamation of beauty, but beauty inspires a feeling that every one should agree.

"Of course, we haven't proved that taste is universal or that beauty is objective; the only assertion is that the judgement of beauty is treated as universal and felt as objective. One of the peculiar aspects of modern aesthetic taste is that the universal feeling beauty inspires is often denigrated as if in fear of its claims; instead, we force ourselves to treat all notions of beauty as being relative assertions of taste. The result can be an art that is anxious about its aesthetic quality, as if asserting its independence from all claims, an art that refuses to be public or even beautiful."

All good stuff, and he is absolutely right, is he not? Members may take it from him when they are for whatever reason reluctant to take it from us.
« Last Edit: 11:02:54, 13-05-2007 by Sydney Grew » Logged
Don Basilio
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« Reply #1 on: 14:10:10, 12-05-2007 »

First a new opera quiz, now this...

Just like old times.  I will watch developments with interest.
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A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
autoharp
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« Reply #2 on: 14:18:41, 12-05-2007 »

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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #3 on: 14:41:57, 12-05-2007 »

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-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
John W
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« Reply #4 on: 14:58:04, 12-05-2007 »



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richard barrett
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« Reply #5 on: 15:03:31, 12-05-2007 »

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Ian Pace
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« Reply #6 on: 15:07:37, 12-05-2007 »

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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
richard barrett
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« Reply #7 on: 15:08:35, 12-05-2007 »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=323kQis2zbM
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Chafing Dish
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« Reply #8 on: 16:10:22, 12-05-2007 »

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/audio.pl?horses02.wav=baloney
« Last Edit: 16:12:08, 12-05-2007 by Chafing Dish » Logged
roslynmuse
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« Reply #9 on: 10:52:44, 13-05-2007 »

Despite being hugely amused by some of the responses to Monsignore Grew's post (especially the sight of Louis Fremaux translating Unwinese to Benjamin Britten - thank you, Richard!) I wouldn't mind a discussion of the points he has quoted...

...the first being - a similarity of style between Mr Rothstein's prose and that of the good member, which momentarily raised a suspicion in my mind...

...the second being that the first paragraph of the passage quoted echoes Gerald Manley Hopkins' essay on beauty and truth in art, a personal musing, to be sure, but no less convincing for that.
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George Garnett
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« Reply #10 on: 11:16:19, 13-05-2007 »


"The judgement of beauty has an absolute aspect to it; beauty seems well suited to be a companion to truth. We feel beauty to be universal, beyond the reach of time or fashion or individual whim. There is something about beauty which is both private - because it involves silent feeling - and public - because it makes us feel as if it is revealing something universal. The judgement of beauty is not idiosyncratic - or so we think and feel - but something more fundamental. Beauty feels like an aspect of public knowledge. We may not actually assert that every one will agree with our proclamation of beauty, but beauty inspires a feeling that every one should agree".


We are indebted to Master Grew for drawing our attention to this admirably succinct, if slightly flowery and herbaceous, statement from Mr Rostein of the central problem of the philosophy of aesthetics: the problem of how to account for the apparently dual nature of aesthetic propositions. We ourselves have no complaint against it as a statement of that pressing but evergreen task.

We look forward with excited anticipation to the prospect of Members grappling with this puzzle (as well, of course, to the initial "Oh no it's not!". "Oh yes it is!" preliminaries which traditionally herald the main business).   
« Last Edit: 17:46:49, 13-05-2007 by George Garnett » Logged
ahinton
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« Reply #11 on: 12:22:53, 13-05-2007 »

In the past we have stated that we like all persons of taste and discrimination
which, as you have already implied, excludes Scots, of course...

adhere to objective and absolute standards, and we need not repeat our arguments here.
That would be a welcome relief, even if doubtless short-lived...

But since we suspect many Members are still confused about this question,
No, dear Member, methinks that it is not THIS which confuses them...

Best,

Alistair
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