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Author Topic: Earliest uses of microtones?  (Read 765 times)
oliver sudden
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« Reply #15 on: 17:46:40, 01-07-2007 »

I personally don't see that there's any avoiding Vicentino and his archicembalo...

He certainly proposed using it to play in mean-tone intonation in any key, but also suggested adding chromatic elements to diatonic pieces and microtonal elements to chromatic pieces.

Now there's a project for some enterprising vocal ensemble... Wink
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martle
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« Reply #16 on: 17:51:30, 01-07-2007 »

Now there's a project for some enterprising vocal ensemble... Wink

Indeed, Ollie. I wonder if anyone in that line of work is watching.  Shocked
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Green. Always green.
Baziron
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« Reply #17 on: 18:52:23, 01-07-2007 »

Trouble is this Martle: your initial message #1 excluded at the outset what you termed 'different temperaments and the like'. Vicentino - and all other early theorists - always arrived at intervals less than a Minor Semitone by way of setting differing temperaments upon instruments of (thereafter) fixed pitch (fixed, that is, unless and until what had been set was then changed). Vicentino's archicembalo was an attempt to create an instrument accommodating all (by then) working temperaments (but this did not - incidentally - include Equal Temperament which at that time was limited to fretted string instruments).

Let's be clear: "Temperament" is a term that describes the way in which the prime intervals (3rds, 4ths, 5ths, and their compounds) are deliberately made impure within scientific levels of tolerance so as to enhance or enlarge the effects of changing key positions while minimising the grossly out-of-tune effects that would otherwise come into being.

Within this framework, microtones are what might be termed "coefficients of tempering", and in no way were conceived as being melodic entities. Now what I thought you were asking was something that involved melodic shading or colouration, and within the Equal Temperament system.

Baz
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Baziron
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« Reply #18 on: 19:05:43, 01-07-2007 »

...Within this framework, microtones are what might be termed "coefficients of tempering", and in no way were conceived as being melodic entities. Now what I thought you were asking was something that involved melodic shading or colouration, and within the Equal Temperament system.

Baz

I need to qualify this slightly. I was referring only to Medieval and Renaissance theorists, all of whom accepted a) that the diatonic genus was the norm, and b) that the chromatic genus was a subset (or subdivision) of the diatonic. Things were rather different in ancient Greece where there existed also the Enharmonic genus in which the quarter tone (given the name diesis) indeed was a melodic interval. But even at that time the diesis was deemed to be the smallest melodic interval.

Baz
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #19 on: 19:24:24, 01-07-2007 »

Er, Vicentino did in fact propose mixing the diatonic, chromatic and enharmonic 'genera' within a piece. If this works:



...you'll see the beginning of a madrigal. Unfortunately his sign to raise a note by a diesis is a little dot above the note - I suspect my scanner may have added some of those and taken others away... Wink

Hm, no, having previewed it it seems to come through OK.

His suggestion to add chromaticism to diatonic pieces and enharmonicism (?) to chromatic pieces reads:

"...sč si agiogneranno ą quelle de i Diesis Cromatici, & de gli Enarmonici fra i toni, & fra i semitoni; si sentirą gran utile di Armonia in quelle..."

Roughly: "if one were to add to these [compositions] some Sharps and Enharmonic Dieses between the tones and the semitones, one would hear a great gain of Harmony in them".
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Baziron
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« Reply #20 on: 19:55:34, 01-07-2007 »

Er, Vicentino did in fact propose mixing the diatonic, chromatic and enharmonic 'genera' within a piece...

...And hence the great argument between Vicentino and Lusitano in 1551. Vicentino was seen to be radical, though both were interested in reviving the ancient Enharmonic genus. But the example given shows a) that singers who were untrained for this were expected to render melodies in which common intervals were adjusted by as little as a diesis (as the ancient but much more qualified Greeks did), and also that the interval-adjustments were made within a totally Pythagorean system.

Other solutions for achieving pure tuning in vocal performance were more widespread (and indeed more credible) - notably Willaert's application of the Syntonic diatonic genus, with its easily-rendered major and minor tones and semitones.

Baz
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