GG and I exchanged emails the other day because there was a message he had left at TOP (I do keep thinking it should have a Yorkshire ' as in T'OP, not sure why...) which had started to get some interesting replies and which I was keen to pick up again.

Here's George's post in full, let's see what responses come in this time! (I'll try to post something myself later this evening):

"One thing I don't think I've ever read, and would be intrigued to, is a serious account by an 'expert' listener of what it is that they are actually doing when they listen attentively to a piece of music, an account of what the thought processes actually are.

I don't mean a stream of consciousness description of all the distractions and failures but what is actually going on in the process of an ideal, or reasonably satisfactory, bit of, well, 'listening to music'. If you played an account of that experience back, what would it look like? What sort of considerations, judgements, comparisons, recognitions, other mental processes, would actually be going on? What do you actually start doing when the music starts, and stop doing when it stops.

When I say I don't think I have ever read such an account this is of course a none-too-subtle
invitation to point me towards examples where this has been attempted. I can think of a few novelists that have had a go but that is more in the sense of setting out the responses of particular characters in particular circumstances usually to illuminate something else.

I have a suspicion that the answer is that this is interestingly impossible (but then the interestingly impossible is often, er, more interesting than the interestingly possible, if you see what I mean)."

Well, it's a few days late, but here are some of my thoughts, for what they are worth, some rather random, on this whole topic of listening.

First of all, given that my response to a particular piece, or even a particular recording of a particular piece, can change - occasionally quite dramatically - I think it is quite amazing that so many listeners actually DO share responses to pieces and performances. However, as to what is actually going on in one's mind; I'm sure that the same response can come out of quite different listening processes/ experiences.

For example (and I can sense myself making one of those far-too-generalised statements), listening to Bach, particularly the keyboard music, although the solo violin and cello music does it too, has the effect of "correcting" my aural balance in some way; I guess my mind responds to the shapes and economy - and the amazing creativity - in a way which is perhaps the single most satisfying way I experience music. As to the process itself - it is rarely a case of "following" the voices in a fugue, say - I could do that with a score - but trying to experience the combination of those voices both as strands and a totality moving through time.

In Haydn, particularly, I engage with the games of expectation met or denied - why does the right hand suddenly change register? is this the end - yes it is, no it isn't...? Very simple examples, but part of the delight of this music. In a way, with Beethoven it is the opposite - whereas in Haydn the music is about moving forward in time and space, to me much of Beethoven is to do with being trapped: momentum arrested. What am doing when I'm listening? Feeling a different sort of tension, clearly; maybe as a result of repetition being a form of frustration. But I realise that still isn't answering the question!

Listening to unfamiliar music/ familiar music; unfamiliar/ familiar idioms and styles; all these must alter our way of listening; sharing a familiar piece with a friend who has never heard it can make us listen differently; juxtaposing pieces and making unusual connections (the art of planning a concert programme...); emotional/personal associations are an under-explored part of reception studies (probably because they are, by definition, subjective); the effect of good or bad performances on listening to a piece.

One thing I am particularly interested in is how we perceive the passage of time when listening to music, whether it seems to speed up or slow down, whether that effect is due to active or static qualities in the music - and again, how much bearing the individual listener's psychology has on the whole process.

I'll try to answer this again at some point - but it would be good to get some more feedback!

When I first read this I was really struck by it and I must say that I am very envious of such a wonderful ability. It is something I think about quite often, the space available in my head to hear separate lines simultaneously, i.e how many lines I can observe comfortably with a full awareness of what each one is doing at all times. I simply cannot do what you do, to the extent that you do it. I don't have that ability to stand back and have a clear picture of what each voice is doing at all times in a complex texture. I sorely wish I did though.

When I play a four part fugue for example, I hear the whole thing with voice leading and balancing as I play it, but some parts will be playing in the background, looking after themselves as it were, and if afterwards I lay down and try and recreate it in my head, some moments in some voices will slip out of my reach - I cannot keep all the balls in the air all of the time. I am always trying to improve my facility to do this. Ultimately though my connection with any kind of music is an emotional one and I know that this is a rather technical point, but it is one that I find fascinating in this discussion.

When I listen to music it seems to have the effect of opening up something inside me, turning up the lights in a darkened room. I find it easier to hear more clearly when I have my eyes shut or perhaps focus visually on one thing (though not at the opera, perhaps obviously). I find I normally look away from the keyboard to best hear what I am playing and hear the music unravelling somewhere 'over there'.

Daniel and tp, that's an interesting comment about looking away from the keyboard while playing. I suppose that means you memorize all the music you play, because looking at notes on a page must be distracting in a similar way. Is it necessary to memorize music in order to play it to the best of one's ability?

I'm not sure what is meant by an "expert" listener. Does it mean someone who is listening very carefully or someone who is experienced and who doesn't need to listen to a piece of music as often as people with less experience in order to get to know it?

But as to what my thought processes are, it's something I have never thought about, otherwise I would be too preoccupied with analyzing my thought processes and not listening so carefully to the music.

So I'm afraid I can only give a shallow answer to the question. I prefer to listen standing up (not possible in the concert hall!) and I find music requires more concentration if there is singing involved, even if it's in a language I don't understand. Also, I have to ensure that I really am hearing what is played and not what I think is being played. For example, if I play the piano in my own, limited way, I have in my head an idea of how I want it to sound. Then, when I play it, I have to make sure that what I can hear is what anyone would hear.

All of it such a difficult questions. There are people here who can say better than me or may be add to what I want to say and who perform often.
Back in Russia if one was a soloist he played by memory. I always thought it was good for violinists because they could move and hear the sounds differently.
To look at ones hands is a big distraction. If one could only concentrate on sounds, inspirations and imaginations. But when one practise it becomes monotonous. If one doesn't practise it is not good, if one practises wrong (with no imagination) it is not good either. Children are natural when they perform, but we all grow up. Most problems are phychological, insecurity etc. If one wants to play especially well this day it might be a himdrance.
How to be confident but not over so, how to be humble at the same time and confident? Performance is like life. How to put sureness and freedom, suppleness, flexibility and sureness. I read about it in a few books.
It is not to be sel-fconscious, but one must be self-conscious to perfect technical things.
In all I think it is a puzzling thing performance like life.

I often close my eyes, it really helps improve the listening experience.