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John W
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« on: 10:02:35, 30-04-2007 » |
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This is old news but not seen it dicussed here. Just been reading/re-reading some pages of May's BBC Music Magazine. Richard Morrison relates a story from the Brighton Philharminic, conductor Barry Wordsworth, who in February had decided two days before a concert not to play one of the planned pieces of music, Andrew Gant's British Symphony, Wordworth said he 'did not believe' in the piece. Morrison goes on to say that the piece was a private commission, so could it have any old rubbish? Anyone know if the piece was a traditional 'British' work or a baffling and difficult piece of new music? It's not listed here http://www.andrewgant.info/html/andrew_s_music.htmland I've read a comment elsewhere that the piece is called 'A VERY British Symphony'. So was it a joke piece? Anyone know the truth about this music? John W |
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smittims
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« Reply #1 on: 11:49:34, 30-04-2007 » |
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Sorry, I don't know the piece,but I'm puzzled to hear that the conductor's decision was made only two days in advance. Surely he should have said so earlier? After all,the work would surely be done by then,the learning of the score and teaching it to the orchestrra in rehearsal.
It leads me to wonder whether he was content to perform it and then had a quarrel with the composer which led to his decision to withdraw.
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time_is_now
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« Reply #3 on: 12:10:06, 30-04-2007 » |
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I get the impression it was a 'traditional' work rather than anything avant-garde or remotely interesting, John, but like smittims I find it exceedingly odd that it was cancelled so close to the performance date.
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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ahinton
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« Reply #4 on: 12:41:38, 30-04-2007 » |
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I am not here to defend or rubbish Mr Gant's symphony, since I do not know Mr Gant personally nor have I seen the score of his symphony. If the entire story is taken at what appear to be face value (and I'm not even saying that it should or can be), the only thing that surprises me is that Mr Wordsworth left it until well after the eleventh hour to announce his refusal to conduct it. Let's examine the possibioities. Had Mr Wordsworth only just decided on this at that point? If so, does this indicate that he believed (or made every reasonable effort to believe) in the piece but then did an unexplained last-minute volte-face on it? Or did Mr Wordsworth decide to refuse to conduct it far sooner (i.e. when, or soon after, he first saw the score) but kept his veto-to-be to himself? If that were the case, then why? - why waste time (as I believe he and the orchestra did) in rehearsing a work that the conductor knew at or near the outset that he would refuse to perform on the night and, had he already also decided to substitute Mendelssohn's Italian Symphony, why did he not spend that rehearsal time on this work rather than Mr Gant's symphony? Or did Mr Wordsworth believe in - or was he at least initially willing to give the benefit of the doubt to - the work but was then persuaded by his players at rehearsal that it wasn't worth the bother? If so, why leave it until the concert was almost due to begin before announcing the decision to cancel its performance? Something here doesn't add up - and, even if the orchestra did complain about the piece and even if their complaints were understandable or even wholly justifiable, I don't believe that the quality or otherwise of the piece seems to be the only issue here. What does Mr Atkinson think about the matter? What does Mr Gant think about the matter? What does the audience at the concert think about it all? What are the legal rights or the commissioner and composer in this case? - and has either or both or anyone else sought redress? Hmmm... I do rather think, even without knowing a note of the piece, that there's rather more to this than has so far met the eyes of most of us, though quite what I have less than no idea... Best, Alistair |
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matticus
Posts: 34
Every work of art is an uncommitted crime.
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« Reply #5 on: 12:42:27, 30-04-2007 » |
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I heard on the grapevine that the majority of the orchestra, as well as Wordsworth, complained about the piece.
Do you feel able to share the nature of these complaints? I wondered if it might have been pulled to avoid any chance of a controversy -- it was pointed out here that the piece was commissioned by a big-name in UKIP, and the symphony seems to be heavily traditionalist from what I've heard. |
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« Last Edit: 12:46:51, 30-04-2007 by matticus »
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martle
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« Reply #6 on: 12:56:14, 30-04-2007 » |
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I didn't hear anything of the precise nature of the complaints, and I'm afraid I don't know any of Gant's work so can only assume the style was 'traditional', like t_i_n.
One thing to bear in mind, and which may address one or two of Alistair's points, however: the Brighton Phil is a 'freelance' pick-up orchestra who only perform during their subscription season. With a normal trad-rep programme they would have only one rehearsal - the day before each concert. It seems they had an extra rehearsal on this occasion - two days before the concert. So no-one would have heard the work 'in the flesh', so to speak, until that first (and last) rehearsal...
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Green. Always green.
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time_is_now
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« Reply #7 on: 13:03:54, 30-04-2007 » |
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I didn't hear anything of the precise nature of the complaints, and I'm afraid I don't know any of Gant's work so can only assume the style was 'traditional', like t_i_n. I should explain that I assumed that because I do have a vague knowledge of Gant's work, not because I don't. I also know him by reputation.  One thing to bear in mind, and which may address one or two of Alistair's points, however: the Brighton Phil is a 'freelance' pick-up orchestra who only perform during their subscription season. With a normal trad-rep programme they would have only one rehearsal - the day before each concert. It seems they had an extra rehearsal on this occasion - two days before the concert. So no-one would have heard the work 'in the flesh', so to speak, until that first (and last) rehearsal... That makes a lot more sense of the story to me. Thanks, martle! |
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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John W
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« Reply #8 on: 17:00:45, 30-04-2007 » |
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It is an interesting story and it would be informative if we knew more about Wordsworth's reasons for refusing to perform the work, and judge if he had behaved reasonably. The Independent said in March that Gant had not received any explanation, so that is certainly not reasonable behaviour.
If I'd been Wordsworth, and thought, say, that the piece was laughable then I would have performed it and had a good laugh with the orchestra and the audience. At least the piece would have had a performance. As far as I know there has been no follow-up to the story, the work is not listed on the Gant webpage of compositions, so are we to never hear the work? Surely someone somewhere will jump at the opportunity to perform the work we were prevented from hearing?
John W
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #9 on: 23:13:42, 30-04-2007 » |
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Although I am not any kind of supporter of the UKIP, I feel that if the "controversial" background of the work's sponsor was known (as it indeed must have been) then the offer should have been declined at the outset, if the orchestra had objections - not 48 hours before the performance.
I also don't believe that a conductor approaching a premiere of a new symphony first looks into the score 48 hours before the work is to be played (unless it's the composer's fault for delivering the finished score to the conductor at the eleventh hour, of course - but no composer would deliberately hobble the premiere of his own work in such a way on purpose).
I strongly suspect there is some element about this work we're unaware of, as this is the strangest behaviour, and apparently inexplicable under any normal circumstances. It's the detail that some of the orchestral players objected to performing it that makes me wonder if there's not more to this than meets the eye?
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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ahinton
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« Reply #10 on: 08:04:14, 01-05-2007 » |
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In the rather glaring absence of the real - or indeed any - explanation, might one also consider the possibility - however unlikely it may seem - that, just as Sibelius is credited as having said late in life "there is no Eighth Symphony", Mr Gant never wrote this symphony at all and the entire story (apart from the apparent fact - assuming it to be a fact - that he was at least commissioned to write one) was nothing more than a poorly timed 1 April prank?
No, probably not - but as some of us may look askance at the alleged symphony's subtitle, we might also care to have a look at next Saturday's Pre-Hear on BBC Radio 3, in whch the second of two works is apparently titled A Very English Music; I wonder if Mr Paul Carr's piece is full of country-tunes? - or if indeed he is setting some kind of trend?...
Best,
Alistair
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smittims
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« Reply #11 on: 09:19:06, 01-05-2007 » |
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I sense that there might have been a 'nationalist-political' slant to the work, which led some of the musicians to think they were being exploited. If so, that would explain the 'complaints'.
It reminds me of a similar, though more ludicrous,episode,when Hughie Green, disturbed by what he saw as the decline of traditional 'British' values caused by (what he saw as) encroaching 'socialism' (which he would equate with Stalinism),mounted a grand finale to hisTV series with marching boy scouts,etc singing an absurd sort of 'anthem' calling viewers to ' stand up for what wa right' though of cousre,rather unspecific as to what that was. I gather it led to compaints which more or less brought hisTV career to an end.
Hughie Green was a very patriotic man who had been a pilot in the RAF (or RCAF) during the war and had,I believe shown some bravery.Sadly,like so many such men,he wa prone to a little right-wing political naivety .
Mr Gant may be a similar case.
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #12 on: 10:56:02, 01-05-2007 » |
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I sense that there might have been a 'nationalist-political' slant to the work, which led some of the musicians to think they were being exploited. If so, that would explain the 'complaints'. Agreed - this does seem to be the most likely explanation, in the absence of any further detail from either Gant, Wordsworth, or the Orchestra. The titling of the work does certainly lend credence to this sort of explanation. |
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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Bryn
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« Reply #13 on: 11:10:19, 01-05-2007 » |
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The symphony does get a mention here |
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ahinton
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« Reply #14 on: 12:11:05, 01-05-2007 » |
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I sense that there might have been a 'nationalist-political' slant to the work, which led some of the musicians to think they were being exploited. If so, that would explain the 'complaints'. Agreed - this does seem to be the most likely explanation, in the absence of any further detail from either Gant, Wordsworth, or the Orchestra. The titling of the work does certainly lend credence to this sort of explanation. Yes, perhaps - who knows for certain? - but why has there been such an absence? I don't especially want to call it a conspiracy of silence, but it might just be such, for all I know. In any case, the conductor must have known what he was going to rehearse before the orchestra got their hands on it - or at least one would very much hope so! The other aspect of this case that seems somewhat puzzling is that not only is reference to the work absent from the composer's website (there are no purely orchestral works listed there at all, as it happens) but there has also been no news about the future prospects for the symphony since cancellation of its première. One wonders if the composer himself might have disowned it. But then that's all one can really do (other than nothing at all) at present - wonder. Given the mythical status that the work has now attracted, perhaps the composer's best hope for it to try to get it performed by the National Philharmoic Symphony Orchestra under Rene Köhler (and may the first respondent to recommend the substitution of the title with The Composer Who Mistook His Symphony For A Hatto get a three-strikes-and-you're-out warning from the moderators)... Best, Alistair |
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