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Ian Pace
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« Reply #15 on: 00:28:37, 26-08-2007 » |
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What would you say, Mary or Tony, though, if one of them wrote a story about a man with three daughters, one of whom together with her lover blinds a rival, another who poisons the first then kills herself, and the third of whom is hanged by a servant (who her father then kills), whilst at the same time, a bastard son of the man who is blinded, was planning to kill the man and the third daughter (and is killed himself)?
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« Last Edit: 00:36:52, 26-08-2007 by Ian Pace »
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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Milly Jones
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« Reply #16 on: 00:33:54, 26-08-2007 » |
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I listened to a discussion today whilst I was driving back from Preston and a point was made that these "gangs" and the "community spirit" within them, may be the only sort of "family" that these youngsters know. They trust each other, rely on each other and seem to know little else but violent and abusive behaviour. Obviously this starts in the home - but how on earth do we solve this problem? Compulsory "family education", "parenting classes?" I am totally at a loss to suggest anything.
Certainly when I was growing up we never heard of "happy slapping" - beating people up for fun and then filming it for god's sake! Things are definitely getting worse in this country and it's happened in my lifetime. We all get a bit miffed and frustrated when driving - but now people get out and stab each other! Road rage? They're psychopaths nowadays!
I often feel as though I'd like to leave this country which has gone steadily downhill in the last 20 years in terms of - well everything - but I was thinking this time of behaviour. However, would life really be different anywhere else? I think we're dealing with a shift in consciousness globally, perhaps because of violent entertainment and the general decline in family values.
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We pass this way but once. This is not a rehearsal!
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Milly Jones
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« Reply #17 on: 00:36:55, 26-08-2007 » |
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Whatever happened to "What I did in the Holidays" and "The Adventures of a Penny"?
Too many violent films, games and television programmes.
Certainly some of Shakespeare is violent, but I doubt that's the influence on the streets, somehow.
Although I've just made the same point in my previous post - thinking back, I was brought up on Grimms Fairy Tales and such like. Grim is indeed what they were! Remember Bluebeard? Parental abandonment and child abuse as in Hansel and Gretel? Wolves eating grandmas.....  |
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We pass this way but once. This is not a rehearsal!
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Mary Chambers
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« Reply #18 on: 00:38:13, 26-08-2007 » |
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What would you say, Mary, though, if one of them wrote a story about a man with three daughters, one of whom together with her lover blinds a rival, another who poisons the first then kills herself, and the third of whom is hanged by a servant (who her father then kills), whilst at the same time, a bastard son of the man who is blinded, was planning to kill the man and the third daughter (and is killed himself)?
I'd accuse them of plagiarism, but be impressed by their reading - and I'd be very, very surprised. |
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #19 on: 00:41:18, 26-08-2007 » |
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All I'm really asking is - is the level of violence in, say, Tarantino films and the like, any greater in degree than that to be found in various classic literature (which is not to say that Tarantino is akin to that literature in other respects)? Violence, including extreme violence, has been a feature of literature since time immemorial, and is a feature of the literature that is taught in schools. Kids see violence around them and write about it, as writers have done for a very long time indeed.
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« Last Edit: 00:44:00, 26-08-2007 by Ian Pace »
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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John W
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« Reply #20 on: 00:56:15, 26-08-2007 » |
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All I'm really asking is - is the level of violence in, say, Tarantino films and the like, any greater in degree than that to be found in various classic literature (which is not to say that Tarantino is akin to that literature in other respects)? Violence, including extreme violence, has been a feature of literature since time immemorial, and is a feature of the literature that is taught in schools. Kids see violence around them and write about it, as writers have done for a very long time indeed.
Ian, you only have to ask the murderers. Were some murderers in the 1930's incited after reading Shakespeare? I really don't think so. Were some murderers today incited by violent video games or DVDs? Yes, many cases are known. |
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Mary Chambers
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« Reply #21 on: 00:57:51, 26-08-2007 » |
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Milly - yes, Grimm can be grim indeed, but we were usually fed highly edited versions. When I read the real ones I was horrified. But we didn't see them graphically portrayed on our screens every day, did we? Violence, as Ian says, has always been a part of literature, but I don't remember it being a feature of everyday amusement.
I'm at a loss, too, because the problem is so deep in certain sections of society. I don't want to leave the country, but I wish I knew what was wrong with the kids that do these things. Low intelligence comes into it, but there was always low intelligence...
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John W
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« Reply #22 on: 01:10:11, 26-08-2007 » |
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Many low intelligence kids like violent DVDs  |
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richard barrett
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« Reply #23 on: 01:17:18, 26-08-2007 » |
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Milly - yes, Grimm can be grim indeed, but we were usually fed highly edited versions. When I read the real ones I was horrified.
Yes, like the bad queen commanding the hunter to bring back Snow White's lungs and liver and then eating them. I don't think "low intelligence" has anything to do with it. People can't be less intelligent than they've ever been in the past. However, people are generally treated as if they were less intelligent (by the media and the government, among others) which seems to have the same effect (to the advantage of the aforementioned). People aren't encouraged to imagine a better kind of life, or indeed to imagine anything at all. |
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #24 on: 01:22:47, 26-08-2007 » |
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Ian, you only have to ask the murderers. Were some murderers in the 1930's incited after reading Shakespeare? I really don't think so.
Were some murderers today incited by violent video games or DVDs? Yes, many cases are known.
I'm not wanting to trivialise the issue by any means, but the vast vast majority of those who watch violent video games or DVDs don't commit murders as a result. And there are cases of murders being inspired by literature (as, for example with A Clockwork Orange). |
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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Milly Jones
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« Reply #25 on: 01:27:34, 26-08-2007 » |
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Assuming that the above is true and entertainment has nothing to do with it, then we must blame what? No family values? Decline of discipline and respect in schools and at home? Economic problems? Mixture of all of these? Racial tensions obviously count a great deal because a lot of the gun and violent crime has up to now been by gangs of black children - although by no means all admittedly.
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We pass this way but once. This is not a rehearsal!
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #26 on: 01:28:43, 26-08-2007 » |
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There's a short article here on the subject, which does point out that whilst Japanese and Korean films are often extremely violent, actually violent crime is relatively rare in those countries. |
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #27 on: 01:30:25, 26-08-2007 » |
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Racial tensions obviously count a great deal because a lot of the gun and violent crime has up to now been by gangs of black children - although by no means all admittedly. Well, where I come from originally, Hartlepool, there is no really significant non-Caucasian population (which is true of the North East in general), but certainly no less violent crime up there. |
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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John W
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« Reply #28 on: 01:35:00, 26-08-2007 » |
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I'm not wanting to trivialise the issue by any means, but the vast vast majority of those who watch violent video games or DVDs don't commit murders as a result. Yes, but Ian the point is that many who DO commit violent crime DO watch violent DVDs and games. Police state in court that these items are found in their homes. Same with paedos, they have stuff on their computers. |
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MT Wessel
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« Reply #29 on: 01:59:10, 26-08-2007 » |
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I agree. A lot of it is down to the 'medja', in all it's forms, but perhaps PC Plod is being handcuffed by Inspector Knacker Of The Yard because of Lord Justice Tosser And His Learned Fiends. |
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« Last Edit: 02:19:43, 27-08-2007 by MT Wessel »
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lignum crucis arbour scientiae
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