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harmonyharmony
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« Reply #15 on: 14:21:08, 30-09-2007 » |
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7020465.stmThe UN envoy, Ibrahim Gambari has met with Aung San Suu Kyi (he is apparently the first foreigner to have done so for 10 months) and will hopefully be meeting with Than Shwe soon in an attempt to broker some kind of peace. Demonstrations are smaller because of increased military presence. China is urging all parties in Burma to resolve their differences peacefully, but this is a long way away from the criticism for which almost everyone involved was wishing. From what little I can glean from the internet, it looks to me as if Gambari's arrived too late to take advantage of the tide of the protests. I suspect that the generals will view this as a war that they have won, and will set up controls over the monasteries to ensure that this will not happen again. The best hope for the Burmese people is probably that protests continue, and that international pressure remains constant. As news of the protests slides further down the news bulletins, I fear that the West will forget Burma, just like we periodically forget Zimbabwe, Afghanistan, Sudan, etc. and that things will carry on like they did before. And what news takes the top spot at the BBC? David Cameron calls for an early election. Powerful important stuff. There's a piece on the sanctions that have been imposed on the regime here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7018411.stm
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'is this all we can do?' anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965) http://www.myspace.com/itensemble |
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #16 on: 14:46:29, 30-09-2007 » |
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Although it's laudable that Cameron has "called for" early elections, and Miliband has "called for" measures, and Brown has "called" the situation "deplorable"... sadly, "calling" is all that's happened, and nothing more, just empty words. These "calls" have been going on since 1962, and have been met by the extension of a Burmese middle digit skywards for 45 years.
When Mr Miliband wishes to, he can summon four random Russian diplomats to St James's Palace and give them their marching orders within seven days... and he did so within two weeks of taking up his present position.
"Myanmar" banks in the City Of London. Myanmar holds offshore assets in Britain. In previous cases when Britain could actually give a monkey's, bank accounts have been frozen and assets siezed (for example, Albania's gold reserves in the vaults of London banks were held forfeit until the regime there changed. When PC Yvonne Fletcher was gunned-down by unknown assailants from within the Libyan Embassy in London, all the bank accounts were frozen, all the assets siezed, the Embassy closed-down and the entire legation deported forthwith).
Apparently David Miliband has bought a tumble-dryer. It's so much more convenient than having to keep wringing his hands.
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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ahinton
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« Reply #18 on: 10:26:29, 01-10-2007 » |
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Whoever from whiever party is charged with decision making about inheritance tax ought to get rid of it altogether, actually, although it is of course far more important to get rid of the Burmese "administration" first. Incidentally, my principal reason for favouring the abolition of inheritance tax is that almost all of it is levied on funds that have already been taxed during lifetime and, for that reason, I feel that is less than just rather as Richard rightly observed the old flat rate poll tax to have been unjust (albeit in a different way). Anyway - back to Burma. It is certainly clear that the military régime is not planning to go quietly - or indeed even at all. It is equally true that Burma has suffered the additional misfortune of being one of those nations that just keeps getting forgoten about for a while in the West, as has been observed in this thread already. Let us hope not only that a way is found to topple this dangerous régime but also that what gets put in its place really will begin to see Burma on the road to recovery. Best, Alistair |
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harmonyharmony
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« Reply #19 on: 17:40:38, 01-10-2007 » |
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Since this is a music board, does anyone have anything to say about the music of Burma?
I've never heard any and, from a quick squizz at what Amazon has to offer, it doesn't look like there's a lot of commercially available stuff.
I might ask this over on the World Music threads as well, just to see who's awake!
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'is this all we can do?' anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965) http://www.myspace.com/itensemble |
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time_is_now
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« Reply #20 on: 18:19:00, 01-10-2007 » |
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I was about to post an image of the Airmail label's contribution, but I see you've posted it yourself on another thread before I got round to googling images for it. Funnily enough, I was looking at the thing itself just half an hour ago and wondering whether I ought to give it a try. I haven't done so, yet, but Airmails are generally not unreliable, if rather skimpily annotated, musical tour guides.
Stunningly beautiful cover. I must find out what that is - some temple?
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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Milly Jones
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« Reply #21 on: 20:31:58, 01-10-2007 » |
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This is just a repeat of - I think it was 1988 - I've just now read that thousands are dead and hundreds of monks have been massacred and left in the jungle. Just as before. I knew this would happen. Surely someone could intervene. They did with Saddam Hussein....but of course there's more at stake in that region.  Mugabe seems to be able to get away with murder and nobody bothers....  Basically it seems that no-one will help unless there's something in it for them. Oil seems to be favourite. |
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We pass this way but once. This is not a rehearsal!
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harmonyharmony
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« Reply #22 on: 22:09:39, 01-10-2007 » |
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This is just a repeat of - I think it was 1988 - I've just now read that thousands are dead and hundreds of monks have been massacred and left in the jungle. Just as before. I knew this would happen. Surely someone could intervene. They did with Saddam Hussein....but of course there's more at stake in that region. Mugabe seems to be able to get away with murder and nobody bothers.... The BBC website isn't reporting such a large massacre. There are reports that 4000 monks have been rounded up and are being taken away from Rangoon. It does say that there are reports of monks (and students) being beaten and killed, but it doesn't seem to be in the numbers that Milly mentions. Difficult to know whether this is a cover-up by the regime or supporters of the protesters fearing the worse. Basically it seems that no-one will help unless there's something in it for them. Oil seems to be favourite.
Yes. 'is this all we can do?' |
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« Last Edit: 22:22:37, 01-10-2007 by harmonyharmony »
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'is this all we can do?' anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965) http://www.myspace.com/itensemble |
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Milly Jones
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« Reply #23 on: 22:19:08, 01-10-2007 » |
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I think it was the Sky website I read it on....it definitely said "thousands massacred" and "dumped in the jungle". There was also a picture of a monk lying face down in a pool - also a pool of blood round him. I suspect that the actual numbers will be played down. I totally believe the article I read. I shall try to find it for you.
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We pass this way but once. This is not a rehearsal!
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harmonyharmony
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« Reply #24 on: 22:20:01, 01-10-2007 » |
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Just read this on the BBC website.It's an account from a student of Buddhism of the current crisis. I found this really interesting: The whole thing started as a religious movement. It was not an organised democratic movement and there was no intention whatsoever for it to be turned into one. Monks were adamant about it.
They knew that there is no point in asking the generals for freedom. They knew that they don't have guns and can't beat the army. All they wanted to do was show the world what their situation is and that they are prepared to die.
They were very hopeful about the UN envoy coming to Burma. But they were quite surprised to hear that the UN envoy met Aung San Suu Kyi.
They love and respect her, but they felt that this time it is about them and that the UN envoy should be speaking to them. They felt that it's a distraction from them while they are being shot at and need protection.
This was an opportunity for them to express themselves after 20 years. Their eyes are on the international community, their only hope is that the world will see their plight and help them. Meanwhile, the BBC's Burmese service seems to have more in-depth and up to date information than the main news pages.
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'is this all we can do?' anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965) http://www.myspace.com/itensemble |
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Milly Jones
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« Reply #25 on: 22:24:00, 01-10-2007 » |
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We pass this way but once. This is not a rehearsal!
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harmonyharmony
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« Reply #26 on: 22:27:53, 01-10-2007 » |
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I think it was the Sky website I read it on....it definitely said "thousands massacred" and "dumped in the jungle". There was also a picture of a monk lying face down in a pool - also a pool of blood round him. I suspect that the actual numbers will be played down. I totally believe the article I read. I shall try to find it for you.
Was it this page?[Just seen your post Milly - will post this off rather than re-writing and then read the page] If so, we can be relieved that we're not talking of thousands massacred (unless this story of 4,000 monks being arrested is just a way of covering up their deaths), but shouldn't forget that it did happen in 1988 and could happen any time now. I find the priorities displayed on the Sky World News page to be utterly sickening, especially the 'Most Read' pages. |
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'is this all we can do?' anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965) http://www.myspace.com/itensemble |
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harmonyharmony
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« Reply #27 on: 22:33:24, 01-10-2007 » |
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If this turns out to be true, then I won't be surprised (and it's interesting that page numbers the arrested monks as numbering 2000 not 4000 as on the BBC website - what happened to the other 2000?) It quotes a Swedish diplomat saying that the Burmese revolution has failed. It will have failed if we let our leaders forget what happened in 1988, what is happening now and what will keep on happening unless something (and I'm not claiming any wonderful ideas about what can be done here) is done. |
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'is this all we can do?' anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965) http://www.myspace.com/itensemble |
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richard barrett
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« Reply #28 on: 22:51:20, 01-10-2007 » |
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I find the priorities displayed on the Sky World News page to be utterly sickening, especially the 'Most Read' pages. That's pretty gruesome, I'd never looked at that site before and I'm pretty sure I never will again. Here is what I'd regard as a corrective to that kind of thing. I read a couple of articles on this site every day. |
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #29 on: 00:27:03, 02-10-2007 » |
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I would imagine it's going to be a near-impossible task for those opposed to the Generals to even calculate their own dead very soon, because of the viciously repressive measures on restriction of free movement the Junta has imposed as an Emergency Situation. Figures of 2000, or 4000 dead could be right or wrong, but shouldn't be interpreted as over- or under-estimates with any attempt to slant the situation - the real figures just aren't known. Many of the protestors had gone to Rangoon (and other places in which reports of parallel protests are only now coming through) from other places, and they won't be known as "missing" for certain for a long while. Anyone who has gone to Rangoon to protest is going to be trapped there for a while, and might figure in "believed dead" lists whilst they're in fact in hiding and waiting for a chance to escape to safety.
The spinelessness of the British Government on this matter beggars belief... Mr Miliband was ready to expel four Russian diplomats over the issue of one Russian national murdered (admittedly in "sensational" circumstances) in London in the final playout of a grudge-match which had nothing to do with Human Rights in any direct way. It's shameful to have to bandy death-tolls around to garner support, but whether 20, or 200, or 2000 monks have been killed the scale of what's happened in Rangoon is beyond all comparison to the Lugovoi/Litvinenko case... yet the British Government's response to the Burma Crisis has been nothing but hand-wringing and hot air. Why is there a Diplomatic Legation in London complete with a Trade Mission? These thugs should have been on the first flight out of Heathrow, along with whatever twenty-fours notice gave them to stuff into 20kg of baggage allowance. I can see a point in keeping a skeleton staff in the "Myanmar" Embassy in London, as we would not want to give the Junta the chance to throw-out the British Legation in Rangoon in retaliation. But a Trade Mission??? When we want sanctions against them? There shouldn't be ANY trade going on with Burma!
BTW, it's a common fallacy that "there's no oil in Burma which is why we give them a raincheck". Burmese territorial waters contain oilfields that are being worked very profitably by the French company Total. When I last looked, Total had petrol-stations in Britain? Or aren't we serious about this?
Miliband is shaping-up to be an even worse Foreign Secretary than the Straw-Man and his mythical WMD - and that's really not a record anyone would want to be proud of.
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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