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Author Topic: Has Britain always been badly governed?  (Read 380 times)
Swan_Knight
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« on: 17:28:53, 12-11-2007 »

I know we're not supposed to have political threads on here, but....

...it struck me recently that Britain has suffered, perhaps more than many countries, from bungling, timid and short-sighted government.

This has been especially true of the twentieth century...and, indeed, the twenty-first.

With the possible exceptions of Attlee and Macmillan, the UK's rulers since 1900 constitute a sorry lot of shysters, frauds, hot air merchants and non-entities. With the odd fanatical idealogue (OK, only one such) thrown in for 'good' measure.

Is there something in this, or am I just suffering from autumn jadedness?
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #1 on: 18:09:53, 12-11-2007 »

I wouldn't care to judge our lot against other countries.  However two points occur to  me:

As we have a monarch to take on the representative/symbolic role of head of state in the UK, we can afford to be far more critical, cynical and dismissive of our elected politicians.  I get the impression that in the USA there is still general respect for the President, even if you do not support him (or in due course maybe her) politically.  Even if Mr President is as unimpressive as at present.  Maybe if the UK was a republic, we would accept far more responsibility for our elected politicians.  (You won't like that bit, sk, and to be honest the side of me that is a sucker for tradition and ceremony doesn't either.  Nor does the side that believes that our whole society is economically unjust and unfair, either.  I'm one muddled bunny.)

I notice you don't mention Churchill.  OK, he was an unimpressive peace time PM, but without his rhetoric during WW2 we would have been conquered by a genocidal German dictator.  And whatever else the old so and so was, timid or non-entities are not the words for him.  (Your other epithets may apply.)
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #2 on: 19:03:09, 12-11-2007 »

I'm so pleased you said this, SK, because I was beginning to think I'd became a sniper from the sidelines who sees less and less good about his original homeland?   On the other hand, having just reread Peter Hopkirk's THE GREAT GAME it's tempting to believe that slipshod governance in Britain isn't merely a C20th phenomenon, but a grand old British tradition? 

Reading the account of the Younghusband campaign (1904) to invade Tibet militarily (something our marvellous British parliamentarians had thought a wizard wheeze at the time) is one of the most depressing things I can imagine.  After the assault on Guru (50 miles from Gyangtse, on the road from what is now Everest Base Camp), when Younghusband's men gunned-down 700 monks armed with flintlocks, one of his subalterns wrote in a letter home "I hope I shall never again be asked to machine-gun men who were walking away".

But "timid" and "bungling" certainly ring true for me.  Two months now after the Burmese monks demonstrated, what has Mr Broon done?  Well, he has wrung his hands.  He has "called for action". But he himself has taken no action at all.  The "Myanmar" Embassy in London remains intact with all its staff in place (although Mr Milliband found himself able to expel four Russian diplomats three months earlier, for reasons he couldn't really explain except that he scored Brownie Points with George for it). Myanmar still banks in the City Of London (goodness me, we don't want to let wishy-washy things like human rights get in the way of banking...).

The latest, of course, is Britain's eager rush to bomb Iran.  Mr Milliband supports the idea completely.  Of course I'm sure that his being a jew with an American wife, and spending every free moment in America doesn't influence his position as British Foreign Secretary.

But bungling and corruption are not confined to one party.  I read at the weekend that Jonathan Aitken, that pillar of rectitude, is being brought back into the Conservative Party to spearhead, errr...  "Prison Reform".  I'm sure he had a chance to chat to his old friend King Saud during his recent visit, too.

UPDATE:
Oh fer heaven's sake, look at this...   [smiley of beating self over head with a mallet]
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7091454.stm
« Last Edit: 19:15:12, 12-11-2007 by Reiner Torheit » Logged

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pim_derks
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« Reply #3 on: 21:12:15, 13-11-2007 »

Reading the account of the Younghusband campaign (1904) to invade Tibet militarily (something our marvellous British parliamentarians had thought a wizard wheeze at the time) is one of the most depressing things I can imagine.  After the assault on Guru (50 miles from Gyangtse, on the road from what is now Everest Base Camp), when Younghusband's men gunned-down 700 monks armed with flintlocks, one of his subalterns wrote in a letter home "I hope I shall never again be asked to machine-gun men who were walking away".

700? The Dutch killed more than 100000 people during the war in Aceh (Sumatra).

I wouldn't care to judge our lot against other countries.

I'm sorry, Don Basilio. Embarrassed
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #4 on: 21:17:38, 13-11-2007 »

UPDATE:
Oh fer heaven's sake, look at this...   [smiley of beating self over head with a mallet]
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7091454.stm
Reiner, cheer yourself up and look at this then. Smiley

http://www.guardian.co.uk/cartoons/stevebell/archive/0,,1284265,00.html
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #5 on: 21:25:21, 13-11-2007 »

700? The Dutch killed more than 100000 people during the war in Aceh (Sumatra).

True, although 700 was only on one day Sad

Ta for the Steve Bell cartoon, Ollie Smiley
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
oliver sudden
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« Reply #6 on: 21:28:54, 13-11-2007 »

Don't thank me, thank him. Smiley

Here's some government for you, by the way. Or lack thereof.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,2209988,00.html
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Chichivache
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« Reply #7 on: 22:15:22, 13-11-2007 »

Hi Richard

Please name some countries which don't have - and haven't had - timid, bungling, short-sighted governments!

Switzerland?

ps any thoughts on "Screw"? Weekends now out.

Cheers
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wotthehell toujours gai archy
oliver sudden
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« Reply #8 on: 22:29:05, 13-11-2007 »

Switzerland?

http://www.svp.ch/

Nope. Well, I suppose they're not timid as such...
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martle
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« Reply #9 on: 22:31:01, 13-11-2007 »

Don't thank me, thank him. Smiley


Steve Bell, Brightonian, is a lovely man. A big cuddly bear of a guy with a soft, low voice and a chuckle which seems to emante from his bones. Here he is:

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Green. Always green.
oliver sudden
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« Reply #10 on: 22:33:36, 13-11-2007 »

Ooh yes, and if you like him you'll love this.

Freeman Moxy!
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strinasacchi
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« Reply #11 on: 22:37:43, 13-11-2007 »


I think he looks like Rasputin:



But his cartoons are excellent!

(Hey, I've done my first image link! I'm not a Luddite after all!)
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martle
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« Reply #12 on: 22:41:30, 13-11-2007 »

(Hey, I've done my first image link! I'm not a Luddite after all!)


Congrats, Strina! Welcome to the world of uncontrollable pic-posting!

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Green. Always green.
Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #13 on: 05:48:18, 14-11-2007 »

I have a soft spot for Martin Rowson's cartoons too Smiley

Meantime, here's further proof of Swan-Knight's original theory:

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/article3157790.ece

He even sounds proud about it?   Huh   Huh   Huh
« Last Edit: 05:56:53, 14-11-2007 by Reiner Torheit » Logged

"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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