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Reiner Torheit
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« on: 06:52:19, 04-04-2008 » |
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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marbleflugel
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« Reply #1 on: 21:34:44, 13-04-2008 » |
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(apols-initial posting re: J Abramsky was in wrong place)
It seems to be long-term temporary. This is one for Strina et al mainly I guess-the strategic retrenchment of technique etc. What are his conducting strengths likely to be I wonder? With some soloists you sense a contribution to the overall ensemble, particularly valuable where there's an element of chamber-scoring in the orchestral writing as there so often is, so hopefully a natural extension of that.
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« Last Edit: 21:43:35, 13-04-2008 by marbleflugel »
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'...A celebrity is someone who didn't get the attention they needed as an adult'
Arnold Brown
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #2 on: 22:06:49, 13-04-2008 » |
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I think maybe his yearning to conduct may not be to direct/shape performances per se, but to be "the guy who does the programming". I mentioned a while ago I was at a Matsuev Press Conference, and he was utterly despondent about the repertoire he is offered - "I am Russian, I play the piano - everywhere I go they want Tchaikovsky Piano Concerto No 1. I really hate this concerto now". Vengerov has been doing "his own thing" with concert-programming for some time as a violinist... I think he's reached the ceiling of where that can go, and now he's ready to exchange the bow for the stick?
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #3 on: 22:36:25, 13-04-2008 » |
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...but as usual, as though conducting weren't a discipline in itself with its own skills base - maybe it doesn't have to be built up by working at it 8 hours a day for decades, but is conducting really something you just walk into when you've had enough of something else?
Yes?
Oh.
Damn.
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strinasacchi
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« Reply #4 on: 23:03:33, 13-04-2008 » |
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Hmm. Interesting. A cynic writes: Perhaps he's interested in conducting because he's a control freak who wants to be in charge of everything beyond the violin line. Or because his injury has made him realise that violinists usually have a shorter professional life-span than conductors. An idealist writes: Perhaps he's interested in conducting because he's full of musical ideas that extend beyond the violin line. Or because his injury has made him realise that he wouldn't want his musical expression cut short by potential future physical limitations.  He may not like the word "burnout", but it sounds to me like he's grown jaded with his current life, which sounds like it's been pretty much the same kind of thing since he was 5. That's completely understandable. If nothing else, he probably relishes the idea of having a base, a group of regular and trusted colleagues to work (and drink) with. As for transferrable skills - who knows? He's clearly an inspiring musician, which will stand him well on his new path. In some ways I think an alert and engaged orchestral player may be in a better position to have developed an instinct for the workings of scores than a soloist, but that's a generalisation. An orchestral player might also have a better understanding of the psychological aspect of conducting. But it sounds like Vengerov is taking seriously the need to develop a proper technique and understanding of it. Good luck to him. ************ Ah, just saw ollie's post. A conducting teacher of mine once told our class that the physical act of conducting is nothing like as difficult as the technique needed to play an instrument. He reckoned it could be learned cold in a couple years at most. As for the musicianship required, surely a good instrumentalist has been learning that kind of thing all along? |
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #5 on: 23:18:36, 13-04-2008 » |
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Or because his injury has made him realise that he wouldn't want his musical expression cut short by potential future physical limitations. Could well be. Britain has many conductors who haven't been orchestral musicians - it's that deus ex machina thing. I think once players know that the guy up on the podium understands their world and has been a part of it, the relationship changes. Maybe I'm wrong, but I still think there's a "snob" thing against conductors who were previously players... as though they're somehow imposters or arrivistes? How many years did it take Elgar Howarth to shake-off the "former trumpeter" tag? I don't think he's ever managed to, in fact...  I'd be delighted if Vengerov mutated into a conductor - we are woefully short of decent major-league conductors in Moscow |
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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strinasacchi
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« Reply #6 on: 23:35:52, 13-04-2008 » |
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Hmm, I think professional discretion means I may have to hold my tongue on this one... Suffice it to say, many players mutter when they have bad conductors that they could do better themselves - but then don't. And then their former colleagues mutter more.
Of course it's a bit different in my world. Much of the time there is no conductor, but a director from the keyboard or violin or whatever solo or prominent instrument is playing.
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #7 on: 00:03:45, 14-04-2008 » |
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Hmm, I think professional discretion means I may have to hold my tongue on this one... Suffice it to say, many players mutter when they have bad conductors that they could do better themselves - but then don't. And then their former colleagues mutter more.
Know wotcha mean there, m'deario - I've had deputations of disgruntled players turning up asking if "anything can be done about him"? However, it's not a one-way street. I remember a production of TOSCA in which alarming stories that "he doesn't know it - at all. He just doesn't know it" were spreading. The orchestral manager sat in on the rehearsal - and it was true, he didn't know it. His "illness" was announced, and a staff conductor took over. |
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #8 on: 00:41:45, 14-04-2008 » |
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George Garnett
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« Reply #9 on: 08:06:44, 14-04-2008 » |
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Indeed, Ron. He's been doing both for some years now so it's not an entirely new departure. I do hope 'quits the violin' turns out to be a headline writer's overstatement since, whatever one may think of the Vengerov 'brand' that he has become, he's still one mean fiddler. This business of giving up the instrument for conducting seems to happen younger and younger these days. But, like others, I can't help wondering whether injuries and other difficulties might have something to do with it. That's how what was supposed to be a 'two year' break from playing the violin was first announced. Both please, Mr S. <Stern Paddington Bear stare> [Edit: This interview on last Friday's Front Row suggests he will be returning to the violin 'later this year'. (?) http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/progs/listenagain.shtml#f ] |
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« Last Edit: 08:56:22, 14-04-2008 by George Garnett »
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IgnorantRockFan
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« Reply #10 on: 12:41:05, 17-04-2008 » |
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Hang on a mo - it's not as if he's suddenly walking into something new: he was conducting at the Proms a couple of years back I'm glad somebody else remembered that -- I thought I must be confusing him with somebody else. (That's the year I was on a quest to listen to every single Prom and it's all blurred together now  ) It was on BBC4 and I remember noticing that the orchestra all watched the leader, not the soloist/conductor. And it was a pretty small orchestra I think (is that normal for a Mozart concerto?) |
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« Last Edit: 12:43:18, 17-04-2008 by IgnorantRockFan »
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Allegro, ma non tanto
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #11 on: 13:17:54, 17-04-2008 » |
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I now find that not only was that Prom televised, but that I even archived it - slightly surprisingly, for reasons some here might understand . I'll have a gander at it some day.... |
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stuart macrae
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« Reply #12 on: 14:20:58, 17-04-2008 » |
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I saw that on telly - it was a youth orchestra as far as I can remember. I think it's quite normal for at least other string players to watch the leader so that down-bow attacks are well-timed - the conductor is there more importantly for 'shaping' of the piece rather than just time-keeping at that professional level.
(Ducks under desk suddenly fearful of a hail of contradictions corrections...)
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thompson1780
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« Reply #13 on: 15:47:53, 17-04-2008 » |
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Made by Thompson & son, at the Violin & c. the West end of St. Paul's Churchyard, LONDON
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #14 on: 16:03:18, 17-04-2008 » |
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Sure am, Tommo.
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