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richard barrett
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« Reply #15 on: 00:27:55, 03-05-2008 » |
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Well that's that then. I can't quite believe this has happened. I have a feeling that living in London is just about to take a turn for the (from bad to) worse, for everyone except the rich.
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #16 on: 06:09:15, 03-05-2008 » |
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Look at it this way. When Jean de Menezes was shot in the head seven times in the head whilst being restrained, who was first to congratulate the Police? Ken Livingstone. Who was it who then supported the Police throughout the series of gerrymandered Inquests into the Menezes slaying? Why, it was Ken Livingstone. And who congratulated Sir Ian Blair on the final verdict of the Inquest that the Police were not to blame for having shot a man seven times in the head at point-blank range? Good heavens, it was Ken Livingstone.
So my feeling is that you've lost nothing, and I hope he rots in hell for all eternity.
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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Mary Chambers
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« Reply #17 on: 07:28:08, 03-05-2008 » |
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The comedy value of Boris may rival that of George Bush.
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Bryn
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« Reply #18 on: 09:01:16, 03-05-2008 » |
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One prediction I can confidently make now is that Routemasters will not be reintroduced, nor was there ever any prospect that they could be. It was just a case of easy foppish populism disguised as policy.
Well, sorry as I am to see a Tory toff take control of London, let's not forget who, but for a few token buses on the 9 (and 8?) route, got shot of the routemasters, (having said that they would go, "over my dead body". Only time will tell whether conductors and faster bussing and debussing are re-introduced in the next few years. |
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autoharp
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« Reply #19 on: 09:18:28, 03-05-2008 » |
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Look at it this way. When Jean de Menezes was shot in the head seven times in the head whilst being restrained, who was first to congratulate the Police? Ken Livingstone. Who was it who then supported the Police throughout the series of gerrymandered Inquests into the Menezes slaying? Why, it was Ken Livingstone. And who congratulated Sir Ian Blair on the final verdict of the Inquest that the Police were not to blame for having shot a man seven times in the head at point-blank range? Good heavens, it was Ken Livingstone.
So my feeling is that you've lost nothing, and I hope he rots in hell for all eternity.
And it's this kind of thinking that has lumbered Londoners with Boris. Ken may not be perfect, but a considered view of the candidates puts him way ahead of the others. So who would you have voted for Reiner? I seem to remember that you claim to be a socialist . . . |
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #20 on: 10:05:36, 03-05-2008 » |
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So who would you have voted for Reiner? I seem to remember that you claim to be a socialist . . .
I didn't vote, of course (being located elsewhere) but I'd have voted for Paddick. Lib-Dems have a good record of sensible management at Local Govt level. Moreover, as a copper, Paddick has made it clear he is gunning for Sir Ian Blair's quasi-fascist way of running the Police, and that is a major issue. I agree Paddick is boring, but if I want entertainment I don't look to politicians for it. I seem to remember that you claim to be a socialist . . . I don't believe extra-judicial pre-planned assassinations have anything to do with Socialism. Nor does hiking taxes for the poorest in society. Shall we mention the gutless support for the neocon extreme right in America, including providing the British Army for free to support politically-motivated wars with other countries, with no basis of proof advanced? Shall we mention Brown keeping Britain out of the Euro because of his yankee-loving tendencies - and as a result the Pound is now going down the toilet against the Euro? Shall we mention Brown's Europe-hating mendacity in keeping Britain out of Schengen? As a result of which British hoteliers and tour-operators are losing millions of visitors every year? (Clue - the Entertainment & Hospitality Industry is Britain's single largest earner of foreign earnings). Or Ken's Olympics fraud, misrepresented to the public at a mere 30% of its known costs (even before the budget overran). So when you talk about "Socialism", do you mean actual Socialism, or the neocon fraud sold under the brand "Newt Labour"  |
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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richard barrett
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« Reply #21 on: 10:55:31, 03-05-2008 » |
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Now I'm no supporter of Ken Livingstone nor am I under any illusions about his "socialism" but I am with Autoharp on a "considered view of the candidates". KL may be erratic in his allegiances but to call him a "neocon fraud" is to devalue an epithet better reserved for people far more dangerous than him.
If so many people's respect for the political process is so low as to elect a bigoted fop like Johnson, this must be largely because politicians across the board have increasingly forfeited their right to be taken seriously. Just as worrying is the fact that a member of a far-right party whose name is stupidly banned from this forum has gained a seat on the London Assembly.
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Milly Jones
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« Reply #22 on: 11:08:42, 03-05-2008 » |
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The public fondness for Boris has always puzzled me. He seems to be regarded as a harmless, amiable buffoon. Hardly the sort you'd choose to be in a position of authority then. Having said that, I loathed Livingstone. I'd have voted for the nice Green Party lady. Well it's done now. We'll just have to see what happens. I'm all agog....  |
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We pass this way but once. This is not a rehearsal!
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #23 on: 11:39:26, 03-05-2008 » |
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but to call him a "neocon fraud" is to devalue an epithet better reserved for people far more dangerous than him.
A fair point in itself, Richard. However, the man who came into the job of London Mayor as an Independent was kicked out of it as the New Labour candidate. He became identified with the policies that he was bound to accept and endorse, whether he privately agreed with them or not - and he's paid the price for that red rosette he wore during the campaign, because it was a false flag. Quite seperately from his disgusting endorsement of police extra-judicial slayings, which I've mentioned above. Bozza's now on a promise to show Britain he can do better - London will become a microcosm of a Cameron-run Britain. If he falls on his face, as many predict, it will be ammunition for New Labour. But in all honesty, I wouldn't vote for that fat slug Brown in a million years anyhow, and most in the Labour Party admit they are in for a thrashing in the elections if led to them by Brown. If National Elections go as per these Local Elections, Labour will end-up on the Cross Benches and the Lib-Dems will form the Opposition. And what will be the difference? "Nu Labour" doesn't differ in one iota from the Conservatives anyhow, this is merely a delusion contrived to attract votes. Tax the poor?? That's "Socialism"? What a pile of dog-doo. A Fletcher Christian is needed to put Captain Bligh overboard in an open boat - for the general good of the shipmates. It's clear Bligh won't attend a Court Martial or recognise he deserves one. |
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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John W
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« Reply #24 on: 11:43:23, 03-05-2008 » |
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A great regret is that fact that, having just moved house, I wasn't able to vote yesterday.
But, Mr John W, who would you have voted for if you were in London, then?
Well I don't know as much about the candidates as the London members here; Ken and Boris clearly have their faults if I am to believe everything that's been posted on here, and to be honest I expect I wouldn't make my mind up and wouldn't have voted, just as I didn't vote in the local elections here. They got a million or so votes each, does that mean 3 million others didn't vote? |
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Antheil
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« Reply #25 on: 11:44:41, 03-05-2008 » |
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Being totally "divorced" from London living where I do I can't really comment on what effect Boris may have on the City but I wonder if any Conservative candidate would have won bearing in mind the absolute disastrous results for Labour across the whole country?
Interestingly enough I have been checking our local County Council website for the full results and in my Ward the turnout was 48% but in some neighbouring villages the turnout was above 62% which I think shows how strongly people feel the Government have let them down, behaved arrogantly and lost touch with ordinary people and this is a protest against them because it's only by a vote that we can tell them how we feel.
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Reality, sa molesworth 2, is so sordid it makes me shudder
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richard barrett
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« Reply #26 on: 11:54:40, 03-05-2008 » |
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to be honest I expect I wouldn't make my mind up and wouldn't have voted, just as I didn't vote in the local elections here. They got a million or so votes each, does that mean 3 million others didn't vote?
Which, as I said, is more the fault of politicians for throwing away their credibility than anything else. Many people struggled and died over a long period to wrest even the limited democracy we have from unwilling rulers, and as a result I think not voting when one has the opportunity to do so is cynical and irresponsible - if the result doesn't affect one personally one could at least think of those people it does affect and make a choice accordingly. |
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Milly Jones
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« Reply #27 on: 12:00:08, 03-05-2008 » |
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The right to vote or not means you have a choice. That also means you can choose not to. What if, as in my case, you wouldn't want to vote for any of them? As far as I'm concerned there isn't a good one amongst them and I don't agree with a lot of the policies of any of them. Are you then, by your reckoning, suppose to pick-'n-mix the one with the policies that most suit your personal agenda - even if there are then still several policies that don't?
We didn't have a local council election here for some bizarre reason unbeknownst to me - but I did vote on the day to keep our local swimming pool from being sold. I shall let you know just how much difference that will have made when the votes are counted. I can tell you for nothing in advance that it won't make any difference at all because the council have already made up their minds and won't take any notice. It's a bit like having Roger Wright in control of R3. No notice will be taken of people's views at all. Watch this space to see whether I shall be pleasantly surprised. Anyone like to put money on it?
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We pass this way but once. This is not a rehearsal!
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Antheil
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« Reply #28 on: 12:05:13, 03-05-2008 » |
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I have to agree with Richard on this. There is an expression "People get the Government they deserve" and I think if you haven't exercised your right to vote then it's no good complaining of the result.
If I did live in London, much as I quite enjoy watcing Boris on HIGNFU, I would have voted for Brian Paddick.
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Reality, sa molesworth 2, is so sordid it makes me shudder
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perfect wagnerite
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« Reply #29 on: 12:10:50, 03-05-2008 » |
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Being totally "divorced" from London living where I do I can't really comment on what effect Boris may have on the City but I wonder if any Conservative candidate would have won bearing in mind the absolute disastrous results for Labour across the whole country?
Interestingly enough I have been checking our local County Council website for the full results and in my Ward the turnout was 48% but in some neighbouring villages the turnout was above 62% which I think shows how strongly people feel the Government have let them down, behaved arrogantly and lost touch with ordinary people and this is a protest against them because it's only by a vote that we can tell them how we feel.
Psephologically, by far the most interesting thing to have happened on Thursday was the Tory surge in Wales - Welsh Labour's semi-detached status didn't help it at all.
Many people struggled and died over a long period to wrest even the limited democracy we have from unwilling rulers, and as a result I think not voting when one has the opportunity to do so is cynical and irresponsible - if the result doesn't affect one personally one could at least think of those people it does affect and make a choice accordingly.
I agree. Nothing in my view has degraded electoral politics more than the way that voting has turned into a form of consumer choice - what's in it for me, rather than what's good for society. The power of the elected politician declines to the extent that people don't vote - and this means that the unelected who own and control society get an easier ride. I guess it's partly about what one sees the democratic process as being for. |
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At every one of these [classical] concerts in England you will find rows of weary people who are there, not because they really like classical music, but because they think they ought to like it. (Shaw, Don Juan in Hell)
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