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Author Topic: "Do we have any other news?"  (Read 710 times)
perfect wagnerite
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« Reply #30 on: 11:23:39, 13-06-2008 »

The intervention of Kelivin McKenzie - apparently backed by the Sun and with financial support from Murdoch, if the BBC report is accurate - makes this potentially very interesting.

McKenzie's position is described by the BBC as being as follows:

Quote
But Mr MacKenzie said it was "rubbish" that "we are living in a controlled state".

"Personally I'm very grateful that there is CCTV around everywhere and I'd like more of it," he said.

"Most of us are not bad guys, we have nothing to fear."

He also told the BBC he would be campaigning on three issues, hostility to the "sense that our country is somehow in the grip of some kind of security vice", demanding that there be "the referendum for Europe", and on more populist issues - like seeking changes to government spending on "things I don't think we care about".

So, as well as the civil liberties issues, we've got that old chestnut, Europe, and a rag-bag of issues which, given McKenzie's record as an editor, are likely to be the usual issues; so-called "political correctness", immigration,  opposition to public service broadcasting (if there's Murdoch money involved, you can guess where this is heading).

All of which suggests the interesting spectacle of a Tory - and one who, in his role as Shadow Home Secretary is no stranger to populism - taking a stand on civil liberties and being opposed from the position of the old populist right, by a man whose decision to stand appears to be motivated by the absence of New Labour.

So, whatever the motivation behind the events, the outcome could be a lot more interesting - and important - than would have been the case before McKenzie's intervention.  If Davis wins, and wins well, one could see this as a firm rejection of the odious values behind The Sun and other right-wing tabloids - something which I, for one, would cheer long and loud.  If it's closer - or even if, God helps us, McKenzie wins - then there is a real battle on our hands between the values of liberal tolerance and a poujadism which is barely distinguishable from the position of a party that we don't name here, but has recently got its first London Assembly member and regularly gets more than ten percent of the vote in local by-elections.   McKenzie could be a stalking-horse for the values of the unnamed party.

So my feeling is that if McKenzie does stand, this could be a political event whose significance could be much greater than Davis might have realised, for rather different reasons.

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At every one of these [classical] concerts in England you will find rows of weary people who are there, not because they really like classical music, but because they think they ought to like it. (Shaw, Don Juan in Hell)
richard barrett
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« Reply #31 on: 11:27:05, 13-06-2008 »

That seems to me an extremely astute analysis of the situation, pw, although McKenzie sticking his dirty oar in is probably likely to spur Labour into announcing they'll put up a candidate, don't you think? The last I heard they hadn't yet decided.
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #32 on: 11:28:35, 13-06-2008 »

The depressing thought is that with a battle between Davis and McKenzie, we have something like the 'choice' on offer in American elections Sad
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
...trj...
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« Reply #33 on: 11:50:00, 13-06-2008 »

Except I don't think anyone is really suggesting Davis won't win re-election as an MP (the Lib Dems were the only ones close in the last election). Left and right isn't what this is about - it's about civil liberties; and in their stated positions we do have a genuine difference of opinion between Davis and McKenzie.

Quote
If it's closer - or even if, God helps us, McKenzie wins - then there is a real battle on our hands between the values of liberal tolerance and a poujadism which is barely distinguishable from the position of a party that we don't name here, but has recently got its first London Assembly member and regularly gets more than ten percent of the vote in local by-elections.   McKenzie could be a stalking-horse for the values of the unnamed party.

Davis is looking for a mini-referendum on liberty - his difficulty will be to keep the campaign to that single issue: if Labour fancy joining in they will try to muddy the waters; I'm not sure about McKenzie though, since it appears that the single issue is why he has signed up to oppose Davis. He may well be more help here than hindrance.

If your worst-case scenario does transpire, pw, then I'd much rather such a battle took place, cards on the table, out in the open. If it's a battle we're worried about losing, then those of us in favour of liberal tolerance really are in trouble. Open, honest debate is much preferable to doing things in nhushed tones (or, indeed, keeping them unnamed).
« Last Edit: 12:17:58, 13-06-2008 by ...trj... » Logged

richard barrett
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« Reply #34 on: 12:13:42, 13-06-2008 »

Except I don't think anyone is really suggesting Davis won't win re-election as an MP (the Lib Dems were the only ones close in the last election). Left and right isn't what this is about - it's about civil liberties; and in their stated positions we do have a genuine difference of opinion between Davis and McKenzie.
ie. between Davis and Murdoch.
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #35 on: 12:24:16, 13-06-2008 »

The depressing thought is that with a battle between Davis and McKenzie, we have something like the 'choice' on offer in American elections Sad

Depressing as it may be, I find the spectre of Murdoch openly sponsoring his own candidates in British elections a chilling prospect.

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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
perfect wagnerite
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« Reply #36 on: 12:41:53, 13-06-2008 »

Depressing as it may be, I find the spectre of Murdoch openly sponsoring his own candidates in British elections a chilling prospect.

Except in one respect:  Murdoch has never actually faced the electorate - he's used his money to buy media outlets through which he has poured out his bilious message, and influence with successive generations of politicians (both Thatcher and New Labour).  The one positive thing that might just emerge from this whole saga is the trouncing of Murdoch's candidate at the polls.

But I agree it could go the other way, in which as a society we have a real problem on our hands.
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At every one of these [classical] concerts in England you will find rows of weary people who are there, not because they really like classical music, but because they think they ought to like it. (Shaw, Don Juan in Hell)
Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #37 on: 17:31:03, 13-06-2008 »

WOuld it be childishly naive to ask if any law prevents a foreign national from underwriting the election expenses of a candidate for a seat in the British Parliament? Sad   Or are we asked to believe Mr McKenzie isn't getting a penny from the Dirty Digger for this?
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
perfect wagnerite
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« Reply #38 on: 18:13:23, 13-06-2008 »

If your worst-case scenario does transpire, pw, then I'd much rather such a battle took place, cards on the table, out in the open. If it's a battle we're worried about losing, then those of us in favour of liberal tolerance really are in trouble. Open, honest debate is much preferable to doing things in nhushed tones (or, indeed, keeping them unnamed).

I agree.  An honest debate would be essential.  In those circumstances, the position of the main parties will be important: it will be interesting to see whether the morally-compromised lobby fodder that is the Parliamentary Labour Party - and indeed their equally compromised remaining Labour Party machine outside Parliament - might rummage up some vestige of the things they apparently once believed in and actually be prepared to make a stand for them.  And whether the Tories could deal with the large part of their membership that support's Mckenzie's world view (even while being horrified by his accent) would be significant too.

WOuld it be childishly naive to ask if any law prevents a foreign national from underwriting the election expenses of a candidate for a seat in the British Parliament? Sad   Or are we asked to believe Mr McKenzie isn't getting a penny from the Dirty Digger for this?

I don't know what the law is on this.  But there are ways of getting around such laws - as both Labour and Tories well know.  Sad
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At every one of these [classical] concerts in England you will find rows of weary people who are there, not because they really like classical music, but because they think they ought to like it. (Shaw, Don Juan in Hell)
Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #39 on: 19:12:04, 13-06-2008 »

Meanwhile Cameron has permanently replaced DD as Shodow Home Sec.  A gloved knuckle-rap, or Cameron taking the chance to shut the door on someone who might have stolen his thunder?
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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