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The Radio 3 Boards > General Chat > News And Current Affairs > Consciousness
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Author Topic: Consciousness  (Read 161 times)
thompson1780
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« on: 11:06:31, 18-09-2008 »
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7621608.stm

Milly has already alerted people to this on the wochabinreadin? thread, but I thought it might merit a lot of discussion so have set up a thread here if anyone wants to contribute.

Personally, I'm really excited about the research.  I don't think it will give such a clear cut answer as the interviewee suggests, but it may help narrow down possibilities.

My own guess is that consciousness is not a free-floating thing independent of the physical body.  I am not a Dualist.  I like Douglas Hofstadter's idea (does this echo Heidegger - I haven't read any of him) that 'thought' is derived from a pattern of neurons firing.  A specific pattern of neuron's is the 'simbol' (sic) that represents our perception of something.  e.g. If I say 'Dog' that leads to a pattern of neurons in your brain which has the meaning 'Dog' to you (and all the associations that come with it).  The pattern is specific to you.

I suspect that at near death experiences, there are several possibilities:
  • there are actually some neurons firing and triggering patterns when doctors think there is no brain activity
  • in the moments before neurons stop firing, our pattern for 'time' is distorted.  So, if X has a near death experience, what X believes is a real time experience of watching (from above) a surgeon cut him/her open is just a construction of X's mind shortly before or after no brian activity.  When X's brain fires up again, the construction is perceived (remembered) as being in part of a continuous time, when to an outside observer (if you could see into X's mind), it would look like time had slowed, stopped and started up again.
  • perhaps 'patterns' are not from neurons firing but are from some other physical phenomena at a lower level.  Some scientists (well, speculators) believe in the human mind as a quantum computer.  It could be that neurons do stop firing, but patterns are still being created at a quantum level during 'death' - thus giving rise to a form of consciousness.
Gosh! What a load of speculation.  It will be great to see what this research finds out.

Tommo
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Milly Jones
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« Reply #1 on: 11:12:39, 18-09-2008 »
I agree it will be fascinating, Tommo.

I'm very curious about this.  There have been anecdotal accounts of patients looking down at themselves during operations and after death, but the ones that interest me the most are the ones that describe in great detail, someone coming into the room, dropping things, conversations - and......sometimes leaving the room, going down the corridor and mentioning what they've seen there too.

I tend towards belief in dualism myself but I have an open mind.  We'll have to see what transpires.
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Ruby2
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« Reply #2 on: 11:23:16, 18-09-2008 »
Aaaargh stop posting things that are way more interesting than work!  Must finish this bit... must finish this bit...  Sad

What was that someone was saying about net addiction the other day?

"Dear manager, it wasn't technically me that failed to meet the deadlines it was my neurons.  Discuss."

 Cheesy
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"Two wrongs don't make a right.  But three rights do make a left." - Rohan Candappa
time_is_now
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« Reply #3 on: 19:05:46, 18-09-2008 »
Quote from: thompson1780 on 11:06:31, 18-09-2008
Personally, I'm really excited about the research.  I don't think it will give such a clear cut answer as the interviewee suggests, but it may help narrow down possibilities.

My own guess is that consciousness is not a free-floating thing independent of the physical body.  I am not a Dualist.  I like Douglas Hofstadter's idea (does this echo Heidegger - I haven't read any of him) that 'thought' is derived from a pattern of neurons firing.  A specific pattern of neuron's is the 'simbol' (sic) that represents our perception of something.  e.g. If I say 'Dog' that leads to a pattern of neurons in your brain which has the meaning 'Dog' to you (and all the associations that come with it).  The pattern is specific to you.

I suspect that at near death experiences, there are several possibilities:
  • there are actually some neurons firing and triggering patterns when doctors think there is no brain activity
  • in the moments before neurons stop firing, our pattern for 'time' is distorted.  So, if X has a near death experience, what X believes is a real time experience of watching (from above) a surgeon cut him/her open is just a construction of X's mind shortly before or after no brian activity.  When X's brain fires up again, the construction is perceived (remembered) as being in part of a continuous time, when to an outside observer (if you could see into X's mind), it would look like time had slowed, stopped and started up again.
  • perhaps 'patterns' are not from neurons firing but are from some other physical phenomena at a lower level.  Some scientists (well, speculators) believe in the human mind as a quantum computer.  It could be that neurons do stop firing, but patterns are still being created at a quantum level during 'death' - thus giving rise to a form of consciousness.
I'd always assumed it was the second of those (not that I was expecting any kind of proof ever to come along), though the third does sound rather more interesting ... Maybe I should read a bit more in this area: I've not really touched Philosophy of Mind since 'A'-level.

I don't think Heidegger ever wrote anything in this area though, did he? (Quite willing to be corrected, but I'm certainly not aware of it!)


PS Thanks for (unintentionally) revealing to me how to make a list! Wink
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
martle
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« Reply #4 on: 19:09:42, 18-09-2008 »
Quote from: time_is_now on 19:05:46, 18-09-2008
PS Thanks for (unintentionally) revealing to me how to make a list! Wink

Tinners, you're not telling me you've never used bullet points?? There are some of us for whom this is now second nature.  Cry
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time_is_now
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« Reply #5 on: 19:21:58, 18-09-2008 »
I'm telling you that I've never done it for web with "[ list ][ li ] [ /li ][ /list ]" instructors, M!
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
martle
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« Reply #6 on: 19:25:04, 18-09-2008 »
Oh. Right.  Cheesy
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Green. Always green.
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