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George Garnett
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« Reply #15 on: 21:33:46, 29-04-2007 » |
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Wilson did refuse military assistance in Vietnam didn't he? Yes, he did. He paid lip service to the Vietnam war, but wouldn't send troops. A refusal that Harold Wilson maintained over a long period and under intense US political pressure, something for which he is still not given enough credit IMHO. |
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« Last Edit: 23:12:30, 29-04-2007 by George Garnett »
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Tony Watson
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« Reply #16 on: 22:58:41, 29-04-2007 » |
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Did Edward Heath come under the same pressure? I know that one reason he was so pro-Europe was because he wanted to avoid wars.
Does anyone else remember Cherie getting weepy at the thought of one of her sons going off to Bristol?
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Swan_Knight
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« Reply #17 on: 23:31:01, 29-04-2007 » |
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Yes, Wilson never gets the credit he deserves over Vietnam. At a time when Britain was far more economically vulnerable than she is today, and dependent on US underwriting of the pound, HW still managed to resist LBJ's calls for even a 'token' British presence in SE Asia. And, let us not forget, he completely disassociated Britain from the bombing of Hanoi in 1966.
Wilson was a firm but fair leader on this issue, which earned him only Johnson's scorn and contempt (he wasn't even given dinner when he visited the White House).
Blair, though, is something else: an evangelical zealot, who believes that 'God' told him to do what he did. Bush was prepared to go it alone (fact), but Blair insisted on signing Britain up to the folly as well.
As for Heath...he was unashamedly Euro-centric and resisted Richard Nixon's attempts to cosy up to him. His vision was of a strong and ultimately united central Europe, able to stare down the USA or Russia.
As it is, I believe the future is for a strong and united Europe, able to stand up the USA and whatever idiot it will occasionally elect. I realise I won't live to see this, though.
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...so flatterten lachend die Locken....
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MT Wessel
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« Reply #18 on: 01:16:17, 30-04-2007 » |
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Reply #17 Methinks thou hast got Blair and Bush muxed ip although I agree that it probably makes no difference ...  |
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lignum crucis arbour scientiae
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Sydney Grew
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« Reply #19 on: 02:53:54, 30-04-2007 » |
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. . . able to stand up the USA and whatever idiot it will occasionally elect. We don't think "occasionally" is quite the right word there. |
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eruanto
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« Reply #20 on: 20:10:29, 10-05-2007 » |
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entirely predictable hoo-ha from the media now that the date is out. i wonder how much input he'll actually put in / get when he transmogrifies (or whatever the word is) into a backbencher.  |
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BobbyZ
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« Reply #21 on: 20:22:21, 10-05-2007 » |
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I wouldn't expect him to take any further active part in British politics and he'll resign as an MP as soon as decently possible before embarking on a world tour as a double act with Bill Clinton.
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Dreams, schemes and themes
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ahinton
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« Reply #22 on: 21:33:35, 10-05-2007 » |
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I wouldn't expect him to take any further active part in British politics and he'll resign as an MP as soon as decently possible before embarking on a world tour as a double act with Bill Clinton.
I'd thought that he'd already announced that he's going to resign as an MP. Since it seems highly unlikely that anyone in European professional politics will stand as much as a snowball's chance in hell of opposing the accession of Gordon Brown, it may perhaps be assumed that the said GB's eventual ambition to become president of a much more expanded Europe than we have now will soon be on course towards realisation, for all that it will be no easy path. Quite how he'll eventually force every EC nation (including all of those current members-in-waiting) from Greenland to Vladivostok to adopt a common currency - the pound - is at present unclear, but given his penchant for listening to people and then ignoring everything that they have and have not said, it'll just be a matter of time, one may suppose. 5+ full electoral terms for Brown, anyone?... Best, Alistair |
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #23 on: 01:05:11, 11-05-2007 » |
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from Greenland to Vladivostok I'd exclude the stretch from Brest-Litovsk to Vladivostok from such a plan currently. Russia's economy is booming on the back of gas and oil, and the Putinistas are most irate at the attitudes coming out of Strasbourg and Brussels at the moment (viz that Russia is supposed to hold its begging-bowl with face downturned, and be grateful for whatever groats it is offered for its oil). Moreover the charming suggestion that Russia is supposed to smilingly accept having new USA rockets aimed at it from silos based in EU countries (Czech Republic, Poland, Estonia) has, predictably, had "lead balloon" reception here in Moscow. (It is, of course, the underlying point of dispute behind the machinations over the War Memorial in Tallinn). There is certainly little love in Moscow towards Mr Brown and his pro-American cheerleading - he is clearly identified in Moscow as "the man who financed the Iraq War" in Britain, and I doubt he is on Mr Putin's valentine-card list. |
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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eruanto
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« Reply #24 on: 17:19:38, 14-05-2007 » |
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"Christianity underpinned so much about his prime ministership, from his 1997 identification of the act of voting Labour with spiritual redemption - "one cross on the ballot paper, one nation was reborn" - to his attempts to persuade the public of absolute truths. The effect could be brilliant. But it produced a strange sort of defiance, especially after Iraq and in the response to terrorism, a leader who came to believe, like Peter Grimes, that he could see the shoals to which the rest of Britain was blind."fitting for this board, methought. to read the rest, follow this link: http://www.guardian.co.uk/leaders/story/0,,2077097,00.html
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chakgogka
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« Reply #25 on: 05:21:21, 15-05-2007 » |
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from Greenland to Vladivostok Actually Greenland is the only country [perhaps, more accurately, territory] that has left the EU (or, more precisely, the EEC as it was in 1985), following a referendum held after obtaining a certain degree of home rule from Denmark. |
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #26 on: 09:27:51, 15-05-2007 » |
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a leader who came to believe, like Peter Grimes, that he could see the shoals to which the rest of Britain was blind." I've been telling him to "sink the boat" for years, but he hasn't listened... |
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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Peter Grimes
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« Reply #27 on: 14:55:45, 15-05-2007 » |
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May I remind everyone that Blair got rid of the Tory Government? Not bad that.
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"On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog."
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richard barrett
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« Reply #28 on: 14:58:16, 15-05-2007 » |
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May I remind everyone that Blair got rid of the Tory Government? Not bad that.
I thought it was us voters. |
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ahinton
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« Reply #29 on: 15:19:20, 15-05-2007 » |
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May I remind everyone that Blair got rid of the Tory Government? Not bad that.
I thought it was us voters. So did I - although it might also usefully be borne in mind that certain Tories got rid of Thatcher first - some years before the Blair accession, in fact. Should we produce this argument forward to assume that Blair has a certain unique distinction in that (as far as one can easily tell) Blair got rid of himself? (or rather will have done by the end of next month)... Best, Alistair |
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