Ron Dough
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« Reply #1005 on: 23:38:37, 08-09-2008 » |
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harpy128
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« Reply #1006 on: 23:49:52, 08-09-2008 » |
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Sorry Ron - didn't realise them church parables were counted as operas although now you mention it there's no particular reason why they shouldn't be.
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #1007 on: 00:08:50, 09-09-2008 » |
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A Sandman and a Dew Fairy appear and sing, Don B; one before sleep, the other afterwards.
Are we allowing Fairies, Faeries, and their kin? I suppose they are secular angels Might I suggest that Hoffmann's Muse is a secular angel? He/she has been guarding him from the outset, and leads him off into an apotheosis.... You could make a case for suggesting that Annina in THE SAINT OF BLEECKER STREET is an angel who walks among men, unbeknownst to them. (Blimey, I think I must have been a Festival Of Nine Lessons & Carols in an out-of-body-experience - I haven't used "unbeknownst" for a long while, and the spelling looks horribly incorrect...) Although he hasn't got a note to sing and isn't mentioned in the castlist, the closing stage-direction (AFTER the choir have sung "Sauvee!") of Gounod's FAUST is ""Mephistopheles is barred by the shining sword of an archangel." (Immediately prior to this Marguerite has been singing "Anges Pures! Anges Radieux!", which hints at their presence - real or imagined). Full marks to Gian Carlo Menotti for NOT using an Angel in AMAHL & THE NIGHT VISITORS. Laudable self-restraint Are we allowed apparitions of the B.V.M.? In which case the end of SUOR ANGELICA (in the stage directions, anyhow). Dear Virginia Ironside, I worry I might be turning into a Catholic... it happened when someone on an internet forum started talking about angels, and...
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« Last Edit: 00:16:53, 09-09-2008 by Reiner Torheit »
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House" - Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #1008 on: 00:13:38, 09-09-2008 » |
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Sorry Ron - didn't realise them church parables were counted as operas although now you mention it there's no particular reason why they shouldn't be.
Still, the scores themselves don't use the word 'Opera' ('Parable for Church Performance', since you ask) whereas the scores of the operas do. At least, judging from the scores sitting here in front of me...
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #1009 on: 00:57:35, 09-09-2008 » |
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And Paul Bunyan's a 'Choral Operetta', Oz, but all four figure in the Britten-Pears Foundation's operas list, whereas The Golden Vanity, ('A Vaudeville') doesn't.
The libretti are included in the standard work on Britten's operas, and they were written for, and premiered by, the English Opera Group. It's true that they may present a new departure in performance and staging, but their direct antecedent in his output is Noye's Fludde ('The Chester Miracle Play set to music', according to the title page, if I'm not mistaken), which is also counted amongst the operas.
The Parables contain dramatic dialogue that's sung throughout by soloists and and chorus to move the plot forward; they're staged, costumed (even originally masked) and accompanied by musicians: there's nothing there that isn't within the standard definition of an opera. The nomenclature 'Parable' seems to have been chosen at least partly to emphasise the devotional nature of the trilogy's components: they go beyond standard opera rather than falling short of it.
They require extraordinarily detailed levels of concentration from the cast in particular, since they were devised to be performed without a conductor, relying instead on a complex system of clues and gestures to ensure that the performers synchronise at important points.
'Parables' they may be by exact definition, but their place within the genre 'opera' seems pretty difficult to deny.
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HtoHe
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« Reply #1010 on: 09:36:42, 09-09-2008 » |
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A Sandman and a Dew Fairy appear and sing, Don B; one before sleep, the other afterwards.
Are we allowing Fairies, Faeries, and their kin? I suppose they are secular angels Not at all Reiner. Everyone knows fairies don't exist and the Sandman isn't real whereas angels.... Actually, Don B was asking or is that a Sandmann and I pointed out that it wasn't a matter of or: there was a Sandman, Dew Fairy and fourteen angels, though the angels are silent.
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HtoHe
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« Reply #1011 on: 10:10:29, 09-09-2008 » |
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Sorry Ron - didn't realise them church parables were counted as operas although now you mention it there's no particular reason why they shouldn't be.
Still, the scores themselves don't use the word 'Opera' ('Parable for Church Performance', since you ask) whereas the scores of the operas do. At least, judging from the scores sitting here in front of me... Wouldn't that test rule out most of Wagner as well, Oliver? That might please Der Meister but I think you'd get a reputation as something of a pedant if you insisted on correcting anyone who described Parsifal as an opera. I saw Curlew River at the SBC many years ago and I seem to remember the publicity describing it as a 'chamber opera'. All three are included in my Dictionary of Opera & Operetta and in each case the initial description is 'opera in one act'.
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #1012 on: 11:02:16, 09-09-2008 » |
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Not at all Reiner. Everyone knows fairies don't exist and the Sandman isn't real whereas angels....
But There Are Faeries At The Bottom Of My Garden...
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House" - Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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harpy128
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« Reply #1013 on: 16:51:48, 09-09-2008 » |
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Angels must exist because 79% of Americans believe in them, according to this reliable source: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,173838,00.htmlI think I thought that the Church Parables wouldn't count as operas because they were written to be performed in a church, but that's as foolish as thinking that something written for the concert hall can't be a mass Anywa, if we're counting people likened to angels we could have Florestan's vision of Leonore in Fidelio
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Il Grande Inquisitor
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« Reply #1014 on: 07:16:14, 20-09-2008 » |
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Having covered angels, we should turn the tables and explore operas which feature devils and demons! Over to you...
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Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency
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perfect wagnerite
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« Reply #1015 on: 08:17:10, 20-09-2008 » |
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Ah, well, the starting point here has to be the various operas featuring the Faust legend and therefore Mephistopheles. So we have:
Gounod - Faust Boito - Mefistofele (a seriously underrated masterpiece, IMO) Busoni - Doktor Faustus Spohr - Faust Berlioz - La Damnation de Faust (assuming you count it as an opera)
Others:
Verdi - Giovanna d'Arco has a scene in which a chorus of demons (in an improbably jolly tune accompanied by harmonium and triangle) tempt Joan of Arc; Dvorak - The Devil and Kate Penderecki - The Devils of Loudon Ward - The Crucible (if you are allowed imaginary devils and demons)
Are furies demons? If so, count in Gluck's Orfeo.
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At every one of these [classical] concerts in England you will find rows of weary people who are there, not because they really like classical music, but because they think they ought to like it. (Shaw, Don Juan in Hell)
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martle
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« Reply #1016 on: 08:57:34, 20-09-2008 » |
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Stravinsky - Nick Shadow (of course!)
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Green. Always green.
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perfect wagnerite
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« Reply #1017 on: 09:23:33, 20-09-2008 » |
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D'OH! Samiel in Freischutz
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At every one of these [classical] concerts in England you will find rows of weary people who are there, not because they really like classical music, but because they think they ought to like it. (Shaw, Don Juan in Hell)
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Il Grande Inquisitor
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« Reply #1018 on: 21:49:37, 20-09-2008 » |
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A good start, folks. How about:
A Russian appearance for Mephistopheles? A devilish dam? An American take on the Faust legend? A 19th Century Russian appearance for a devil? An appearance in disguise, accompanied by a chorus of demons and dancing nuns?
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Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency
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perfect wagnerite
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« Reply #1019 on: 21:58:45, 20-09-2008 » |
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A good start, folks. How about:
A Russian appearance for Mephistopheles? A devilish dam? An American take on the Faust legend? A 19th Century Russian appearance for a devil? An appearance in disguise, accompanied by a chorus of demons and dancing nuns?
Well, the last could be Jerry Springer: The Opera, as a slightly oblique guess?
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At every one of these [classical] concerts in England you will find rows of weary people who are there, not because they really like classical music, but because they think they ought to like it. (Shaw, Don Juan in Hell)
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