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harpy128
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« Reply #30 on: 14:55:50, 12-05-2007 » |
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We're going to the Glyndebourne "St Matthew Passion" but I was having some misgivings about the idea of staging it so I'm glad to hear it's shaping up. (Have read weird things about their "Macbeth" incidentally...)
Re Handel oratorios, "Solomon" is a jolly good one although it's not really suitable for staging. "Acis and Galatea" seems quite a good candidate for staging, but it's a "masque" rather than an oratorio.
From what little I know about it the oratorios seem musically and dramatically more "advanced" - for example they have more (and more ambitious) ensembles than the operas. Both of the two mentioned above have striking trios, for example.
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #31 on: 14:57:37, 12-05-2007 » |
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Reiner - before you dig those great coats out of store...
Even a tub thumper like Joshua includes the beautiful bass aria "Shall I in Mamre's fertile plain" and the sprightly soprano "O had I Jubal's lyre". The tenor's "While Kedron's brook" isn't bad. "See the conquering hero comes" started out here and is much more delicate in its original form than when belted out by 25 Methodist Choral Societies and 30 brass bands at the Free Trade Hall.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #32 on: 15:16:02, 12-05-2007 » |
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We're going to the Glyndebourne "St Matthew Passion" but I was having some misgivings about the idea of staging it I don't think you'll be disappointed... it's expected to be the "hit" of their season, from all accounts. "Macbeth" is apparently going to be "challenging"... but Richard Jones is on a roll at the moment, and I always watch his work with great interest, and envy  I have sent the faithful retainer, Old Firs, back to the costume-store with the greatcoats pro-tem, Don B |
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #33 on: 15:34:55, 12-05-2007 » |
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Athalia with Sutherland, Kirby, young Aled, Bowman and Rolfe Johnson, conducted Hogwood, was available from Decca as part of their Gramophone Awards Collection last year. Anyone know The Occasional Oratorio?  Recorded by Robert King for Hyperion, but it sounds the sort of triumphalism that gives Handel a bad name. I believe the Occasion, as usual, was the Jacobite defeat in 1745.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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harpy128
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« Reply #34 on: 15:47:40, 12-05-2007 » |
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Yes, Reiner - I really enjoyed RJ's "Lady Macbeth of Mtsensk" and the recent "Schicchi"+"L'Heure Espagnole" double bill so I'm quite keen to see his "Macbeth". It's going to be included in the tour this autumn so one could catch it then (as well as at the Proms, but I think I might wait for the tour).
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richard barrett
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« Reply #35 on: 17:15:31, 13-05-2007 » |
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Somehow influenced by this thread, a copy of Renč Jacobs' Saul found its way into my hands yesterday and i'm listening to it now. Absolutely marvellous! I don't remember the JEG version being as dramatically or musically engaging as this, but I haven't heard that for a long while. I don't know whether it would be feasible to stage it though.
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #36 on: 20:08:42, 13-05-2007 » |
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I don't know whether it would be feasible to stage it though. Usually that will depend on the libretto, rather than the music - as Don B already mentioned, many of the oratorios have extremely static first sections, usually covering the "backstory", which are rather leaden dramatically. Handel was the most established theatrical composer of his era, and as an entrepreneur into the bargain knew what could be made into good stage material. The other rather obvious point about staging Handel is what to do with all those da capo arias... even the most inventive producers hit the wall on that one at some point. A lot depends on the technical resources of the theatre in question... for example, the ENO JULIUS CAESAR of some 20+ years vintage now, used a rather formulaic approach... starting from either the middle section or the da-capo, the scenery for the next scene would move into place, achieving a neat "televisual" link into the next scene, without colossal longeurs. However, this was often at the expense of the dramatic sense, since the scenery for the end of the aria would often be inappropriate for its context. But this depends most of all on having a super modern theatre where huge scenery moves silently by hydraulics... relatively few opera theatres are so luxuriously equipped as that. So the answer to your question is probably "well, it depends where you're staging it, and with what kind of budget". An inventive designer is also a must, of course. |
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #37 on: 21:54:44, 13-05-2007 » |
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A difference between the operas and oratorios we have not mentioned is the convention of leaving the stage after your number in operas: this is not inevitable in the operas, but does mean that the action and the music do not necessarily fit.
Come to think of it there are times in the oratorios when the same convention is magnificently at work: either Athalia storming off after delivering "My vengeance awakes me" or Samson going off to slaughter more Philistines than ever before after the lovely and tragic "Thus when the sun" (as admired by Ollie). But usually the character is still on (virtual) stage after their solo.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #38 on: 22:36:00, 13-05-2007 » |
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I never thought about the difference between oratorio and opera.
I understand sort of on an instinctive level, but I would not know how to put it into words.
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #39 on: 23:01:41, 13-05-2007 » |
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Good point about the "exit aria" tradition, Don B!
Another obvious point, but one which we may sometimes overlook, is that due to economic and market reasons, Handel wrote opera in mid-career, and then wrote only oratorio in his mature years. Obviously his most advanced pieces therefore appear in the oratorio format, by-and-large.
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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Parsifal1882
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« Reply #40 on: 10:47:41, 14-05-2007 » |
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I hope the Richard Jones who's directing Glyndebourne's MACBETH isn't the one who directed the '90s 'rubbish-bin' RING for the ROH  |
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Il duolo della terra nel chiostro ancor ci segue, solo del cor la guerra in ciel si calmera! E la voce di Carlo! E Carlo Quinto! Mio padre! O ciel!
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #41 on: 10:52:21, 14-05-2007 » |
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I never thought about the difference between oratorio and opera.
I understand sort of on an instinctive level, but I would not know how to put it into words.
tp - I think the difference is quite simply that an opera is meant to be performed with costumes and sets, whereas an oratorio isn't. In its origin (St Philip Neri in C16 Rome, I believe) oratorio was always to a religious text, and may have been performed in church. In the case of Handel, (I am sorry to sound cynical), oratorio was far more profitable than opera. No sets and costumes to hire. The audience could be middle class as well as aristocratic (the words were in English and they could kid themselves it was respectable because it was based on the Bible). As (notionally) religious works they could be performed in Lent, when the theatres were closed. As far as I know, during Handel's lifetime they were always performed in secular spaces, never in church. Another difference in the case of Handel, was the use of the chorus in oratorio. Handel was good at writing choruses. |
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« Last Edit: 12:23:05, 14-05-2007 by Don Basilio »
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #42 on: 12:18:43, 14-05-2007 » |
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I hope the Richard Jones who's directing Glyndebourne's MACBETH It's the same director. I have to say that I saw his FIERY ANGEL at La Monnaie, Brussels, recently, and it was spectacularly good. |
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #43 on: 09:20:38, 15-05-2007 » |
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I have been listening to Semele Part 1. It is action packed by the standards of Handel's other oratorios. Only Semele's nature notes at "The morning lark" are an extended aria.
Mind you the writer, William Congreve, couldn't do plots, as even the most enthusiastic lovers of "The Way of the World" will, know and the action is pretty opaque without consulting the synopsis.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #44 on: 09:39:46, 15-05-2007 » |
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Agreed, but he did "comical situations" rather well - THE DOUBLE DEALER has some good moments  |
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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