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Antheil
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« Reply #15 on: 18:54:34, 27-10-2007 » |
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Well there you go Reiner, different strokes for different folks.
I thought it a laugh a minute. you didn't.
And, sorry to say this, it's fantasy, Opera, it ain't real life is it?
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Reality, sa molesworth 2, is so sordid it makes me shudder
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #16 on: 19:04:04, 27-10-2007 » |
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Well there you go Reiner, different strokes for different folks.
I thought it a laugh a minute. you didn't.
And, sorry to say this, it's fantasy, Opera, it ain't real life is it?
Yes, but my point is that it's still violent and that doesn't exclude it from being very funny (which it is, and I laughed too). It's a humour which is predicated on violence - just in the same way that we laugh when Tom's head is slammed into the wall and his eyes explode in "Tom & Jerry". Instead of "violence" and "humour" being mutually exclusively as you say, violence is an essential ingredient of slapstick humour. Remember when Inspector Clouseau is trying to put the lightbulb in, and it keeps popping out - so he sticks his fingers into the electric socket to see what's making the bulb pop out? |
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #17 on: 19:06:50, 27-10-2007 » |
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Have you heard Suk's "Asrael Symphony" by now, Reiner?
Yes, and thanks for the link to it, Pim! I can't say it's a "neglected masterpiece", but there is some good writing in places. I heard the "Hallo! Hallo!" moment too  |
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #19 on: 22:27:32, 27-10-2007 » |
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Does this count as trying to buy the favour of the moderator?  |
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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martle
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« Reply #20 on: 22:41:12, 27-10-2007 » |
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Does this count as trying to buy the favour of the moderator? Reiner, yes.   |
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Green. Always green.
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #21 on: 23:02:08, 27-10-2007 » |
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That sort of behaviour will get you nowhere. Hm, nice groat. (I feel the need to explain myself though. The passage in P&J goes: Riddle me, riddle me ree A little man in a tree A stick in his hand A stone in his throat If you read me this riddle I'll give you a groat. As far as I'm concerned the answer is 'a cherry' although googling I see that some prefer the answer 'a hawthorn berry'.) Apropos violent operas, a friend of mine once wrote one called The Road to Hell is Paved with Slaughter. I played the parts of Clarinet 1 and Satan. One of my finest moments on stage. |
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« Last Edit: 23:03:46, 27-10-2007 by oliver sudden »
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George Garnett
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« Reply #22 on: 23:07:47, 27-10-2007 » |
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I played the parts of Clarinet 1 and Satan. One of my finest moments on stage. And is it true? Did you get all the best tunes? |
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #23 on: 23:35:47, 27-10-2007 » |
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And is it true? Did you get all the best tunes?
Even now I still remember such moments as 'Then you are a fool, Chaim', 'That's just great', and my favourite 'You were quite quick! / I have not waited long to claim you / You realise that your soul is lost?'. Ah, memories. |
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Peter Grimes
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« Reply #24 on: 15:04:37, 29-10-2007 » |
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Reiner Torheit - LMAO @ "The Big Mac"!
Groats all round everyone.
Is there any significance in the fact that Wozzeck and Punch and Judy were both composed at the time of particularly brutal wars?
(World War I and Vietnam respectively, for younger readers.)
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"On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog."
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richard barrett
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« Reply #25 on: 15:12:51, 29-10-2007 » |
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Is there any significance in the fact that Wozzeck and Punch and Judy were both composed at the time of particularly brutal wars?
(World War I and Vietnam respectively, for younger readers.)
There may be. But there are few if any periods in human history when there hasn't been a brutal war (is there any other kind?) going on somewhere. Wozzeck was certainly crucially informed by Berg's own experiences in the first World War, but I don't know of Birtwistle ever making any mention of the Vietnam war (or indeed any other). |
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richard barrett
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« Reply #26 on: 15:22:07, 29-10-2007 » |
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Wasn't the music for this series composed by Frank Zappa?
Yes, the first series, though it was put together posthumously by his son Dweezil (who also plays Ajax in the series). Sadly I must admit that I didn't have to consult Wikipedia for that information. However. There's violence, explicit or implicit, in most operas isn't there? - given that the principal themes of the genre are sex and death. Can we think of any operas which don't contain any violence of any kind? Capriccio maybe. |
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #27 on: 16:47:10, 29-10-2007 » |
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"I tell you as a composer.... if we had to suppress adultery, crime, evil or the supernatural, there wouldn't be enough left about which to write even one note".
- Georges Bizet. One of my favourite quotations, I have it on the wall on a postcard. There's violence, explicit or implicit, in most operas isn't there? One little "rehearsal warm-up" improv game that's very useful when starting work on staging a piece is the "red ball game". The owner of the "red ball" is in command of the scene whilst they hold it, and everyone has to discuss only what the red-ball-holder says - the other(s) has/have to snatch the ball when they want to change the subject. It's a successful exercise because it's the basis of interaction in any scene - Person A wants Person B to do what they want, and Person B can either agree, or disagree... disagreeing is harder than agreeing. (Obviously the idea is to then remove the ball but retain the antagonism. It's especially important when the opera's in a foreign language, so the inter-relationships must be clearly explicit to an audience who don't speak that language.). This principle of conflict of personalities is what makes interesting theatre - conflict and power are at the heart of drama. Coercion, force and threatened/actual violence are some of the most typical means by which these conflicts are pursued. - given that the principal themes of the genre are sex and death And taxes. But they don't make very interesting librettos usually |
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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ernani
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« Reply #28 on: 16:54:17, 29-10-2007 » |
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I remember reading about a modern (German?) opera based on Seneca's Thyestes, although I can't recall who wrote it. That is bound to be a pretty gruesome piece, with murder and cannibalism thrown into the mix I've always found the violence in a number of Puccini's operas, especially violence done to women, to make for fairly uncomfortable viewing. We had an interesting thread on this a while back. Tosca has been mentioned, but Turandot is another case in point, especially Liu's torture in the last act, which makes me wince for a number of reasons. |
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« Last Edit: 18:17:00, 29-10-2007 by ernani »
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strinasacchi
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« Reply #29 on: 18:08:47, 29-10-2007 » |
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Gianni Schicchi? Plenty of hypocrisy and deceit, but is there any outright violence?
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