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perfect wagnerite
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« Reply #15 on: 22:24:53, 09-01-2008 » |
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I still have a dim memory of the old ENO WERTHER, although it was past its best-by date when I saw it, I fear. ENO also had a MANON for a long while, which was so old that it appeared to have been created under Massenet's own personal supervision  It seems that public taste has moved on and left the genre of the tragedie-lyrique floating like jetsam in its wake. (Not only Massenet, but also Gounod, Charpentier etc) I wonder if there'll be a new-found enthusiasm for this repertoire outside France? The night I saw the ENO Werther the stage crew were on strike and it was performed against black flats. Old hands claimed this was an improvement .... I do hope there will be a revival of this repertory. There is a lot of fine music in the tragedie-lyrique tradition that deserves to be heard. I guess part of the problem is that the style of singing that it requires is disappearing too; ENO was fortunate in the 1980s to have singers like Valerie Masterson, John Brecknock and even the young John Treleaven who could do justice to it |
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At every one of these [classical] concerts in England you will find rows of weary people who are there, not because they really like classical music, but because they think they ought to like it. (Shaw, Don Juan in Hell)
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roslynmuse
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« Reply #16 on: 22:31:33, 09-01-2008 » |
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NB - that was cleaner than I expected! Massenet.... Funnily enough I was thinking of starting a French opera thread, having reacquainted myself with Faust and Beatrice et Benedict before Christmas, and had the pleasure of hearing Les Huguenots, Lakme and Djamileh over the break. Samson et Dalilah was rather less of a positive experience; still to come: Louise and Le Cid. The only Massenet I have seen in the theatre was Werther, which I found a rather dull evening; I'll probably work through the various CD sets in the library over the coming months so I'm pleased to read a sort of consensus on a pecking order! I really did enjoy the Meyerbeer, against all expectations. I must explore some of the others - I know bits of Le prophete and L'etoile du nord but don't know anything of L'Africaine, Robert le diable or Dinorah. Anyone had experience of them? Lakme was a joy from beginning to end. Does anyone know Le roi l'a dit? (Which reminds me of one of those unfortunate misprints - the famous incidental music Delibes wrote was NOT to a play called Le roi s'abuse...) Ahem! Anyone know any Boieldieu, Auber, Herold...? Or indeed Gounod beyond the big two and Bizet beyond Carmen and Les pecheurs? Oh, and my other big enthusiasm, long-standing, is for Chabrier's operas, they always make me  |
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Notoriously Bombastic
Posts: 181
Never smile at the brass
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« Reply #17 on: 22:37:06, 09-01-2008 » |
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Oh dear, do I have a reputation?
Afraid the only Auber I know is the overture to le Domino Noir, having played the 'brown music' arrangement a few times in a brass band.
NB
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #18 on: 23:16:56, 09-01-2008 » |
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Gounod's MIREILLE is a very worthwhile piece, although it's the only of his operas I know besides FAUST and R&J. I know isolated arias from the others... there's a fabulous aria in Sapho (she's a heterosexual Sapho in this version) where she's about to commit suicide by throwing herself into the sea... and a stunning mezzo aria in the (otherwise mediocre) CINQ-MARS. Yes, Delibes really is badly neglected, isn't he? And we ought to mention Gustave Charpentier, too - if only for LOUISE  Oh, and of course, Bizet wrote more than CARMEN, but you'd sometimes never guess so from the infrequency with which his other works are performed... |
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #19 on: 09:25:39, 10-01-2008 » |
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Handy resource for this kind of thing, DB; it has saved me from having to confess my ignorance on many occasions! http://www.acronymfinder.com/afaik it's got iirc and lots of similar shorthand. Its main fault, imho, is that it often leaves you to choose from a bewildering list of alternatives for one acronym/initialism; but it's quite good at getting the most common ones near the top of each list. Ta HtoHe. I see what you mean Acronym Meaning ****** IIRC If I Recall/Remember Correctly ***** IIRC Interactive Illinois Report Card *** IIRC If I Read Correctly *** IIRC Image and Identity Research Collective *** IIRC If I Really Cared *** IIRC If It Really Counts *** IIRC Internet Information Research Center *** IIRC Impedance Imaging Research Center (Korea) *** IIRC International Interpretation Resource Center *** IIRC Immunity and Infection Research Centre *** IIRC Information Integrity Research Centre (UK) *** IIRC International Internet Recruiting Consultants, Inc. * IIRC International Inter-Society Research Committee (on Nuclear Codes and Standards) * IIRC Isn't It Really Cool |
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #20 on: 10:25:14, 10-01-2008 » |
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I Insist Reiner's Correct 
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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ernani
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« Reply #21 on: 12:41:05, 10-01-2008 » |
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I've mentioned the wonderful Introuvables du Chant Français set on EMI before, but it really is chock full of all kinds of rare French treats, including large sections devoted to pre 1945 recordings from operas by Massenet, Gounod, Meyerbeer, Delibes, Charpentier, Gluck, Auber, etc, etc. It really is a treasure trove. More generally, I wonder why the less well known byways of French opera aren't more often traversed? Is it to do with the reluctance of bigger opera houses to take a chance on this kind of repetoire, lack of singers with good enough French, lack of singers with good enough technique? I can't believe the latter is true: look at the Handel revival over the past couple of decades. If there is a movement towards a particular repetoire, singers can and do adapt. In the case of grand French opera, obviously the costs of mounting productions are prohibitive. But this hasn't stopped most big opera houses staging Les Troyens . It's a wonderful work, but what about a big Opera de Paris or Covent Garden production of Escarlmonde, Le Prophete or Le Cid?
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perfect wagnerite
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« Reply #22 on: 12:41:55, 10-01-2008 » |
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Oh, and of course, Bizet wrote more than CARMEN, but you'd sometimes never guess so from the infrequency with which his other works are performed...
Although at least one has found its way home ... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7180605.stm |
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At every one of these [classical] concerts in England you will find rows of weary people who are there, not because they really like classical music, but because they think they ought to like it. (Shaw, Don Juan in Hell)
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #23 on: 12:45:01, 10-01-2008 » |
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It's the kind of repertoire Ian Bostridge might reasonably look at? ROBERT LE DIABLE was one of the "biggest" operas of the C19th - it was played all over Europe. Opilec might tell us more? |
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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Ruth Elleson
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« Reply #24 on: 12:58:39, 10-01-2008 » |
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Gosh. Given that the baritone singing Zurga (quoted in the article) is 18, I wonder how old - and how experienced - the rest of the cast is? Zurga is surely the easiest of the three main roles by quite some way; I hope they had a competent tenor for those pianissimo high Bs... How much of a tradition for Western classical music is there in Sri Lanka (and indeed the nearby countries)? One of the current members of the Royal Opera's young artists' programme is a Sri Lankan soprano (Kishani Jayasinghe), but it's not often in this country that you come across opera singers from that part of the world. |
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Oft hat ein Seufzer, deiner Harf' entflossen,
Ein süßer, heiliger Akkord von dir
Den Himmel beßrer Zeiten mir erschlossen,
Du holde Kunst, ich danke dir dafür!
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perfect wagnerite
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« Reply #25 on: 13:21:46, 10-01-2008 » |
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There's a bit more information - including cast details - here: http://sundaytimes.lk/070916/Plus/plus00010.html |
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At every one of these [classical] concerts in England you will find rows of weary people who are there, not because they really like classical music, but because they think they ought to like it. (Shaw, Don Juan in Hell)
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #26 on: 13:58:30, 10-01-2008 » |
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I have a vague memory of the ENO Manon, too, which is a tad embarrassing because I appeared in one of the revivals (as a guest thug) a season or two after I'd left the company as a permanent fixture. It was a John Copley production, rather elegant IIRC, and I have a feeling that I only did a couple of scenes, one with Val Masterton, and the other manhandling John Brecknock. Musically all I remember is a very pretty aria for Manon, apart from that it's all pretty vague: I'd have been doing an in-between job elsewhere at the time, probably in the Hi-Fi shop, so I probably did it on minimal rehearsal. Somewhere in the stores there must be a reel-to-reel tape of the Werther (Baker/Brecknock/Mackerras): I can't remember whether the Manon was broadcast or not: if it was, I should have a copy of that too, somewhere....
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Soundwave
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« Reply #27 on: 12:43:55, 11-01-2008 » |
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Ho! Friend Ernani mentions that there is an idea, he does not agree with, that Massenet is perhaps thought of as a frothy lightweight. I agree with Ernani and you only need to know "Esclarmonde", "Herodiade" and, particularly the last twenty minutes of "El Cid" to realise that he was perfectly capable of writing strongly dramatic music when it was required. Although, personally, I can't stand "Werther" or "Manon" I do like "Cendrillon". One Massenet opera I would like to encounter is "Cleopatra". Has anybody here seen or heard it?
Regarding Gounod's "Mireille", mentioned by Reiner, I had Vincent in my repertoire early on and grew to appreciate "Mireille" far more than "Faust". The latter always seemed a little "cobwebbed" to me.
Reiner also mentions "Robert le Diable" and brings to mind a faint (hopefully correct) memory that McCracken had it in his repertoire along with "Le Prophete".
Cheers
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Ho! I may be old yet I am still lusty
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Il Grande Inquisitor
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« Reply #28 on: 00:03:22, 12-01-2008 » |
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Ho! Soundwave, good to see you back here! I tracked down a copy of Cléopâtre last summer and posted enthusiastically here - definitely worth a place in the 'rare and neglected operas' thread! It's only available at some rather inflated marketplace prices on Amazon at the moment, but it's worth keeping an eye out for a cheaper option, as I did. I see there's also another version available - a live Caballé recording from 2002 (I confess, I wasn't aware she was still singing) |
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« Last Edit: 00:07:33, 12-01-2008 by Il Grande Inquisitor »
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Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency
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Swan_Knight
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« Reply #29 on: 10:41:06, 12-01-2008 » |
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Oddly enough, my impression of Massenet is exactly as described by ernani in his introductory post! Possibly unfair, as I'm only familiar with Werther (have a recording of Manon, which I've yet to listen to). A friend of mine is a bit of a Massenet fan and he's played me a few of the less popular works, none of which have really impinged on me as being more than pleasant and mildly diverting. I always picture Massenet as a good, professional composer, who turned out effective stage works that met the needs of the time he lived in (a bit like a Saint-Saens of the opera house), but never really managed anything truly outstanding. Wonder if listening to Manon will change my mind? |
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...so flatterten lachend die Locken....
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