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The Radio 3 Boards > The Music Boards > The Opera House > Bergs operas
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Author Topic: Bergs operas  (Read 270 times)
offbeat
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« on: 22:45:57, 24-09-2008 »
Just wonder what members feel about Bergs operas Wozzeck/Lulu
Have been listening to clips on You Tube and find this music extremely addictive - the storylines to both operas are a bit bizarre but to me theres something magical and sensual about both dramas - i dont really know much about opera but wondered what place in the 20th century these are thought of - any recommendations gratefully received !!
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martle
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« Reply #1 on: 22:57:44, 24-09-2008 »
offbeat

Love 'em both, and I reckon (with countless others) that they are two of the greatest pieces of music theatre ever conceived, let alone realised. They are very different, of course. Berg's conception of drama was surely rooted in expressionism, and you have to appreciate that to 'get' Wozzeck. But by the time of Lulu, he'd developed a more utilitarian and grittily realistic view of the world (as well as a clutch of serialist ideologies, bent to his own artistic will, from Schoenberg). But also, there's something VERY fishy going on with Wederkind...

(and Jack the Ripper)
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #2 on: 23:04:42, 24-09-2008 »
Wozzeck can be seen as pretty seminal, both in its choice of subject and the form which the opera takes: at least two other important mid-20th century operas (Shostakovich's Lady Macbeth of the Mtsensk District and Britten's Peter Grimes) could hardly have existed as they are without its example, and its influence can be seen in a far wider range of works. Despite its uncompromising material and score (rather different to the majority of well-known operas) it established itself pretty quickly as a standard repertory work. Lulu has had a rather more chequered history, partly because it was left unfinished, though a completion of Act 3 made in the late 70s by Friedrich Cerha has become all but standard, and greatly increased its acceptance by opera companies. 

As martle says, extraordinarily powerful pieces of music theatre.  
« Last Edit: 23:07:01, 24-09-2008 by Ron Dough » Logged
George Garnett
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« Reply #3 on: 23:12:10, 24-09-2008 »
Personal opinion only and all that but as far as I am concerned they are the two towering peaks of 20th century opera. They are just 'there', dominating the landscape, and can't be ignored. I'm addicted to both and trot along to every performance going.

Wozzeck never fails to be overpowering almost regardless of what a director does to try and bugler it up: and in a good production it is a killer. Lulu is, in my experience, more susceptible to director's blight and while I love it as a work I haven't yet seen a production which hasn't somehow let it down. I'm still waiting for one that does it full justice.    
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richard barrett
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« Reply #4 on: 01:01:48, 25-09-2008 »
I love both works but Lulu much more. Everything about it is unique and original. The recording of the posthumously completed version conducted by Boulez, with Teresa Stratas, is still a benchmark (as in its time was Karl Böhm's recording of the incomplete version with Evelyn Lear), and the DVD conducted by Andrew Davis with Christine Schäfer is also fine. I don't know much about recordings of Wozzeck - I only have the Abbado one.
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harmonyharmony
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« Reply #5 on: 01:04:25, 25-09-2008 »
I have to confess a shameful ignorance: I have not heard Wozzeck all the way through.
I'm saving it up as a treat.
I adore Lulu though, and have done since I first heard it on the radio when I was a teenager.
I don't have a recording yet.
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time_is_now
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« Reply #6 on: 03:01:00, 25-09-2008 »
Quote from: richard barrett on 01:01:48, 25-09-2008
and the DVD conducted by Andrew Davis with Christine Schäfer is also fine.
I don't think I knew about that. What's the production like?

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I don't know much about recordings of Wozzeck
Neither do I ...

Quote
- I only have the Abbado one.
I only have the Mitropoulos one!
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #7 on: 04:47:25, 25-09-2008 »
Notch me up as another big fan of both pieces - more especially LULU.   For me it stands in the "Trinity" of operas that depict the social meltdown and miasma of the inter-war decades...   LULU (1937), JONNY SPIELT AUF (1927), and LADY MACBETH OF MTSENSK (1934).   All three openly question the existing social order, and hint at endorsing criminality in the pursuit of fun  Roll Eyes

I don't know any of the recordings of LULU, I'm afraid - I have an in-repertory production of the opera just down the road from me, and seeing it 1-2 times per year performed live more than satisfies my interest in the piece.  It is, by the way, an extremely good production Smiley


Tatiana Kuinji/Lulu, Vladimir Bolotin/Artist,  Helikon Opera prod Dmitry Bertmann


Tatiana Kuinji/Lulu,  Ksenia Vyaznikova/Grafin Geschwitz


Dmitry Ovchinnikov/Schigolch, Tatiana Kuinji/Lulu


Maxim Losev/Jack-the-Ripper

WOZZECK - I'm afraid I have the schnorrer's choice - Segerstam & Royal Opera Stockholm on NAXOS. There's lots that's good on there, in fact - notably Katarina Dalayman as a full-blown Wagnerian Marie,  and I'm sure that's what Berg must have had in mind for the role.   Did anyone else see the Keith Warner production at ROH  (in which Dalayman appeared) 5-6 years ago?
« Last Edit: 04:49:58, 25-09-2008 by Reiner Torheit » Logged
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George Garnett
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« Reply #8 on: 07:59:11, 25-09-2008 »
Quote from: time_is_now on 03:01:00, 25-09-2008
Quote from: richard barrett on 01:01:48, 25-09-2008
and the DVD conducted by Andrew Davis with Christine Schäfer is also fine.
I don't think I knew about that. What's the production like?

I would guess that would be Graham Vick's Glyndebourne production of the mid 90s? Christine Schäffer was a knockout but I can't say I liked the production that much at the time. Maybe I'll get hold of the DVD and give it another go. I was quite taken with the portrayal of Jack the Ripper though, IIRC a nervous and unassuming type  -  pullover, Brylcream and plastic bag. Really rather chilling.

Ooh look, right at the bottom of the cast list in one of the 'one line in Act 2' parts: Mother - Christine Rice. Of course one spotted her potential at the time Cool.
« Last Edit: 08:32:02, 25-09-2008 by George Garnett » Logged
offbeat
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« Reply #9 on: 22:01:38, 25-09-2008 »
Tks everyone for yr interesting and informative feedback re Bergs music dramas- i must log on to amazon soon  Smiley

Regarding Lulu - i have always been interested in the subject of this drama since seeing
the Pabst film Pandoras Box with Louise Brooks - I imagine Berg saw it also........
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trained-pianist
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« Reply #10 on: 22:08:34, 25-09-2008 »
I like traveling opera to do Berg's Lulu. It looks interesting.
Would this be a good project? I think it could be sold to the public with pictures like in Reiner's post and description of a plot.
« Last Edit: 22:22:54, 25-09-2008 by trained-pianist » Logged
Turfan Fragment
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« Reply #11 on: 23:29:48, 25-09-2008 »
Quote from: time_is_now on 03:01:00, 25-09-2008

Quote
- I only have the Abbado one.
I only have the Mitropoulos one!
And I only have the Dohnanyi one! Love it love it.

Both operas are out of and yet very much of this world.
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #12 on: 08:56:43, 26-09-2008 »
Wozzecks - I have Abbado and Böhm and should really look at a couple more. I have a few too many Lulus probably - not that I don't think the piece is worth having several recordings of, just that some of the recordings I have don't measure up to the others. Boulez for audio and the Glyndebourne for video.

If I were given to saying such things which I'm not I'd go for Wozzeck as one of the greatest operas of the twentieth century and Lulu as one of the greatest of all.
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