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George Garnett
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« on: 04:08:21, 22-07-2007 » |
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I was rather taken with this which started life presumably as a sub-editor's idea for a journalistic 'piece' to fill the review section, but I think Sean O'Hagan's account makes it a bit more than that. Familiar territory, I suppose, but put in a measured and thought-provoking way. http://observer.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,,2131728,00.html |
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #1 on: 10:01:01, 22-07-2007 » |
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Interesting, GG, though it's plain that he not only does not know his Ades from his Elgar, but also his Adams from his Ives!
Though what worries me more is what exactly you were doing up at 4 in the morning....
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #2 on: 10:46:44, 22-07-2007 » |
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Also interesting that he tries not to cough until everyone else does and when he doesn't like something he doesn't necessarily blame the music first. If only more concertgoers were like that. And for that matter critics.
(Psst, editor, Striggio and Tallis are 16th-century)
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IgnorantRockFan
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« Reply #3 on: 11:18:27, 22-07-2007 » |
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Interesting article. My movement from rock to classical was quite different to his but I can understand and agree with most of what he says. I liked this passage particularly: The main leap of consciousness that classical music demands of the listener used to rock, particularly in a live setting, is that you have to meet the music half way. You have to sit for long periods of complete silence and concentration. ... Maybe, it's the absence of words to hang on to. It's almost like learning to meditate; you have to find that state of clarity, of complete receptiveness. It's a difficult place for me to reach But I completely disagree with this: And, I have problems, too, with the air of elitism that surrounds classical music. I would even go as far as to say the main problem with classical music - the same goes for opera and theatre - is its audience. ... the number of black performers exceeded the number of black audience members. The young and curious were also in the minority I've found the classical music audience is the least elite, most welcoming, and down-to-earth body of people I have ever met. And they are generally falling over themselves to get other people to join them! How is that an "elite"? Nobody has been putting up signs at concert halls saying "Beethoven tonight -- no blacks, no young people." Anybody can go to a classical music concert. If they're not, don't blame the "elite", blame the people who are voluntarily excluding themselves. And, you know, it's ok to like several types of music. Now spinning: John Adams (violin concerto). Before that: Roxy Music (first album)  |
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« Last Edit: 11:21:47, 22-07-2007 by IgnorantRockFan »
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Allegro, ma non tanto
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #4 on: 11:32:10, 22-07-2007 » |
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I've found the classical music audience is the least elite, most welcoming, and down-to-earth body of people I have ever met. Been to the Royal Opera House recently?  |
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #5 on: 11:43:50, 22-07-2007 » |
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But I completely disagree with this: And, I have problems, too, with the air of elitism that surrounds classical music. I would even go as far as to say the main problem with classical music - the same goes for opera and theatre - is its audience. ... the number of black performers exceeded the number of black audience members. The young and curious were also in the minority I've found the classical music audience is the least elite, most welcoming, and down-to-earth body of people I have ever met. And they are generally falling over themselves to get other people to join them! How is that an "elite"? That's pretty much my feeling as well about the classical music audience as a whole. I wonder though if O'Hagan is going to too many big-ticket gigs? I can see how that might give him the sort of impression he seems to have had... |
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #6 on: 11:58:02, 22-07-2007 » |
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I've found the classical music audience is the least elite, most welcoming, and down-to-earth body of people I have ever met. And they are generally falling over themselves to get other people to join them! How is that an "elite"? That's pretty much my feeling as well about the classical music audience as a whole. I wonder though if O'Hagan is going to too many big-ticket gigs? I can see how that might give him the sort of impression he seems to have had... Surely the big-ticket gigs are likely to give a clearer impression of the larger bulk of classical music listeners, and thus what the average classical music goer is like, at least in the country one is in? |
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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xyzzzz__
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« Reply #7 on: 12:08:45, 22-07-2007 » |
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Really hated the whole rock = adolescent/stupid, classical = mature/intelligent assumptions made in this article.
I ws left wondering as to how widespread the process described in this article is. Whenever I read about how the 'audience are old at classical concerts aren't they just going to die off' - rants I guess its wrong to look at it purely in that manner. For some reason when people grow older they get into classical (!)
I don't get the elitist thing either, as in I don't exactly know how it manifests itself when you attend a concert - but I'm not one for the big event.
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HtoHe
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« Reply #8 on: 12:43:45, 22-07-2007 » |
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Sorry, this looks like a piece written by a hack and paid for by the word.
The elitism stuff is complete nonsense, as witness the proffered evidence:
<<The young and curious were also in the minority, and it is obvious that the stuffiness of the classical world is off-putting to too many people>>
compared with his own story which makes it clear he'd defined himself as an outsider and 'intruder' almost before his first concert. I'd put IgnorantRockFan's argument from the other perspective. Unless pop and rock audiences have changed enormously in the last quarter century they are as full of snobs, sectarians and anoraks as any other. The rock bores can certainly give the jazz bores a run for their money what with their bootlegs, remixes, family trees et al. And both are far more likely than classical music fans to give you the benefit of their knowledge BEFORE you ask! Oliver Sudden might have a point about the big-ticket gigs; pace Ian Pace, I think you are more likely to get an idea of the classical music listener at a subscription concert; and the galas and celeb-headliners attract a higher proportion of people who are there to be seen rather than to listen.
In the last thirty years I've found the people at classical concerts, on the whole, friendly, helpful and informative. The last rock gig I went to was Peter Hamill at the QEH avbout 10 years ago; I know all that prog rock stuff is probably a special case but the collection of old VdGG (yes, guilty, as you might guess from my moniker) fans that made up the audience were nothing to be proud of.
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #9 on: 13:01:01, 22-07-2007 » |
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Surely the big-ticket gigs are likely to give a clearer impression of the larger bulk of classical music listeners, and thus what the average classical music goer is like, at least in the country one is in?
Hardly - the big-ticket gigs are 'likely' to be the more expensive ones... which is, er, what big-ticket actually means. So of course you're going to get a correspondingly skewed picture of the audience. Of course the likes of us do actually make it into the big-ticket gigs from time to time but even then you're not going to see us in the front of the circle. (Making a judgement about the classical audience from there would be a bit like making a judgement about airline passengers from a first-class seat... ) |
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George Garnett
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« Reply #10 on: 13:21:51, 22-07-2007 » |
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Though what worries me more is what exactly you were doing up at 4 in the morning....
Oh, yes, that. It was one of those "just couldn't sleep so it seemed better to get up and have cup of tea and do something to stop random unhelpful stuff doing 'Wall of Death' rides around the inside of my skull" occasions. I also let the next door cat in out of the pouring rain so it wasn't entirely wasted . |
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #11 on: 13:27:15, 22-07-2007 » |
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Surely the big-ticket gigs are likely to give a clearer impression of the larger bulk of classical music listeners, and thus what the average classical music goer is like, at least in the country one is in?
Hardly - the big-ticket gigs are 'likely' to be the more expensive ones... which is, er, what big-ticket actually means. So of course you're going to get a correspondingly skewed picture of the audience. I was thinking that 'big-ticket gigs' were those with very large audiences and thus big ticket sales, such as the Proms, for example. |
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #13 on: 13:44:24, 22-07-2007 » |
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I'm sorry to hear this, George,
If there's a thought in the Dough head at all, it's usually enfeebled itself by midnight, so I tend to be a 'head hits the pillow - zonk' type of sleeper. I don't enjoy the very rare occasions upon which this fails to happen, so I offer my sympathies.
Ron Dough(zie).
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David_Underdown
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« Reply #14 on: 10:55:28, 23-07-2007 » |
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He's have met a very different audience if he'd gone in tot he promming areas, rather than the seats.
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--
David
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