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George Garnett
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« Reply #15 on: 21:54:20, 27-08-2007 » |
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Does anyone remember the Viennese evenings that were once a regular slot, in which music by the Strauss family was the main feature? Even then it was thought that waltzes and polkas were not meaty enough to fill a whole evening so the first half would be something by Mozart or Schubert. Yes indeed, Tony. For years that slot used to be 'owned' by John Barbirolli and the Halle. He used to be in a world of his own, waltzing gently on the podium, eyes closed and groaning away happily to himself. Ah, here we are, 31 July 1965 Suppe: Overture, The Beautiful Galatea Mozart: Piano Concerto No 15, K450 (Ingrid Haebler) Schubert: Symphony No 8 J Strauss: Overture, Die Fledermaus Lehar: Merry Widow Suite J Strauss: Annen Polka Perpetuum mobile Emperor Waltz R Strauss: Suite, Der Rosenkavalier and several encores but I've no record of what they were. |
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« Last Edit: 22:01:05, 27-08-2007 by George Garnett »
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HtoHe
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« Reply #16 on: 22:04:23, 27-08-2007 » |
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and can't say that I like Michael Ball's voice nor his repertoire but he's obviously very good at it and the audience are loving it so it being a Prom doesn't bother me - but perhaps my opinion doesn't count as I'm not a Prommer.
Your opinion certainly counts with me, MJ. I already knew I wouldn't like MB's voice - he typifies the worst kind of MoR compromise to my ear and I'd really rather listen to Robert Plant or even Noddy Holder! I wouldn't mind some of the repertoire - the Bizet & Bernstein are fine, for example - but I'm not setting myself up to be annoyed by Mr B's ruining them. That said, some people clearly love it. I think I'm more opposed to its being on Radio 3 than to its being on at the Proms. If they're planning to do much more of this stuff (and I hope they're not) perhaps they could have a Radio 2 Prom or two per season. Mind you, I've been neglecting Radio 4, as usual, during the Proms season so I've taken the opportunity to re-cquaint myself with that station this evening. |
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Milly Jones
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« Reply #17 on: 22:05:24, 27-08-2007 » |
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I just switched on for the last 15 minutes of this. Packed house, clapping along, rocking in the aisles, standing ovation......Fine, there's obviously a market for it - but surely not at the Proms? So that's that then. The people have spoken. I feel quite lonely.  |
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We pass this way but once. This is not a rehearsal!
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xyzzzz__
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« Reply #18 on: 22:13:08, 27-08-2007 » |
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"What serious music-lovers would call "dumbing-down" is referred to as "giving wider access to other people with different tastes to enjoy"."
Maybe its time for "serious music-lovers" to stop using the term "dumbing-down" for a while.
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Mary Chambers
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« Reply #19 on: 22:21:29, 27-08-2007 » |
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I switched on to BBC4 after University Challenge, out of nosiness, really. I was just in time for the duet with Alfie Boe. Stick to what you can do, Michael - don't mess with opera.
It depressed me, but I'd had a bad day.
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MabelJane
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« Reply #20 on: 22:24:20, 27-08-2007 » |
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I just switched on for the last 15 minutes of this. Packed house, clapping along, rocking in the aisles, standing ovation......Fine, there's obviously a market for it - but surely not at the Proms? So that's that then. The people have spoken. I feel quite lonely. This should cheer you up Milly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rW2I6KmWhw |
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Merely corroborative detail, intended to give artistic verisimilitude to an otherwise bald and unconvincing narrative.
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HtoHe
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« Reply #21 on: 22:25:01, 27-08-2007 » |
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Fine, there's obviously a market for it - but surely not at the Proms?
So that's that then. The people have spoken.
But it could be argued that it *is* the function of the Proms to bring fine music to the masses, Milly. Just as the brillliant 'Ring' of the last four years was filled with people who might not be able to afford the prices or negotiate the arcane ticket allocation at major opera houses, so tonight's Prom gives 'an evening with Michael Ball' to people who just want to see someone they'd otherwise only be able to experience via recordings. You might say this isn't fine music-making and I'd agree with you but that's only our opinions. Clearly thousands of people have different opinions. I can't help thinking they've opened a bit of a Pandora's box, though. If Michael Ball, why not Shirley Bassey? Or Radiohead? Or anyone who can claim a musical following and whose agent thinks the Proms is a good career move? I think I'll shut up now in case anyone's making notes! |
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Milly Jones
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« Reply #22 on: 22:25:30, 27-08-2007 » |
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Maybe its time for "serious music-lovers" to stop using the term "dumbing-down" for a while.
I think not. Dumbing-down is very apt. |
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Milly Jones
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« Reply #23 on: 22:30:09, 27-08-2007 » |
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Fine, there's obviously a market for it - but surely not at the Proms?
So that's that then. The people have spoken.
But it could be argued that it *is* the function of the Proms to bring fine music to the masses, Milly. Just as the brillliant 'Ring' of the last four years was filled with people who might not be able to afford the prices or negotiate the arcane ticket allocation at major opera houses, so tonight's Prom gives 'an evening with Michael Ball' to people who just want to see someone they'd otherwise only be able to experience via recordings. If people can get to the Proms they can also get to Theatreland and experience him there where in my opinion he belongs. I like musicals and occasionally go to them, but listening to the duet with the girl from Lord of the Rings, my heart sank. It isn't fine music at all. The Proms has to me always been something different. Now it's going to be the same as everywhere else. I mourn its passing. Sorry but there it is. |
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We pass this way but once. This is not a rehearsal!
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Mary Chambers
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« Reply #24 on: 22:31:05, 27-08-2007 » |
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Hear, hear, Milly.
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Milly Jones
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« Reply #25 on: 22:31:49, 27-08-2007 » |
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I just switched on for the last 15 minutes of this. Packed house, clapping along, rocking in the aisles, standing ovation......Fine, there's obviously a market for it - but surely not at the Proms? So that's that then. The people have spoken. I feel quite lonely. This should cheer you up Milly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rW2I6KmWhwThanks very much, it did. Basenjis can't bark you know. I didn't know they could sing - perhaps this one will make the Proms next year. It might as well.  |
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We pass this way but once. This is not a rehearsal!
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Ruth Elleson
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« Reply #26 on: 22:34:15, 27-08-2007 » |
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If people can get to the Proms they can also get to Theatreland and experience him there where in my opinion he belongs. I like musicals and occasionally go to them, but listening to the duet with the girl from Lord of the Rings, my heart sank. It isn't fine music at all. The Proms has to me always been something different. Now it's going to be the same as everywhere else. I mourn its passing. Sorry but there it is.
Without wishing to disagree with you, the Proms is MUCH cheaper and easier to get to than a West End show, where you generally have to pay £15-£20 for a bottom price seat and book months in advance for the popular shows. |
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Oft hat ein Seufzer, deiner Harf' entflossen,
Ein süßer, heiliger Akkord von dir
Den Himmel beßrer Zeiten mir erschlossen,
Du holde Kunst, ich danke dir dafür!
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John W
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« Reply #27 on: 22:35:17, 27-08-2007 » |
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I'm disappointed that Michael Ball's concert is part of the Proms.
I've nothing against Michael or his repetoire, but there is already a weekly series of concerts of light/variety music recorded/broadcast for Radio 2 every Friday Night so I think Michael's concerts should be part of that and not part of the Proms, indeed Michael has featured many times on Radio 2s Friday Might concerts.
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perfect wagnerite
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« Reply #28 on: 22:42:26, 27-08-2007 » |
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Fine, there's obviously a market for it - but surely not at the Proms?
So that's that then. The people have spoken.
But it could be argued that it *is* the function of the Proms to bring fine music to the masses, Milly. Just as the brillliant 'Ring' of the last four years was filled with people who might not be able to afford the prices or negotiate the arcane ticket allocation at major opera houses, so tonight's Prom gives 'an evening with Michael Ball' to people who just want to see someone they'd otherwise only be able to experience via recordings. If people can get to the Proms they can also get to Theatreland and experience him there where in my opinion he belongs. I like musicals and occasionally go to them, but listening to the duet with the girl from Lord of the Rings, my heart sank. It isn't fine music at all. The Proms has to me always been something different. Now it's going to be the same as everywhere else. I mourn its passing. Sorry but there it is. I agree that this sort of programme has no place in the Proms. Perhaps rather than argue about fine music - which can easily become subjective - a more telling point might be to think in terms of commercial music and art music. The programme tonight was commercial music; and I would have said music that is generally widely available - it doesn't need the exposure that this sort of programme gives, whereas I am sure that we could all devise programmes of neglected but worthwhile music that desperately needs an outing on the sort of stage that the Proms provides. The desperately sad thing is that the sort of tokenism implicit in presenting this sort of programme at the Proms is actually narrowing the range of what is available. To me, this programme represents a particularly nasty form of reverse elitism, of a sort that appears to be rampant at the BBC. Is there really nobody left who believes that the purpose of the BBC - and Radio 3 in particular - is to make the best available to the widest possible audience? |
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At every one of these [classical] concerts in England you will find rows of weary people who are there, not because they really like classical music, but because they think they ought to like it. (Shaw, Don Juan in Hell)
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Milly Jones
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« Reply #29 on: 22:44:11, 27-08-2007 » |
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Without wishing to disagree with you, the Proms is MUCH cheaper and easier to get to than a West End show, where you generally have to pay £15-£20 for a bottom price seat and book months in advance for the popular shows.
Ok. Well I'm obviously outvoted anyway. As I pointed out, the place was heaving and they were dancing, clapping and he got a standing ovation. As I said, the people have spoken. This is what they want and this is what they shall always have in the future. Fair enough. For me, the wrong music in the wrong place at the wrong time. I'm in the minority. |
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