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« Reply #30 on: 22:51:05, 27-08-2007 » |
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If people can get to the Proms they can also get to Theatreland and experience him there where in my opinion he belongs. Can they? What would you get for a fiver in the West End?. And don't stars like him usually sell out? I was assuming it was an analagous case to my seeing Meier, Terfel, Domingo, Pappano etc two years ago. I could have seen them at the ROH, where they undoubtedly belong, but I should have had to pay about £40 for a poor seat instead of £32 for a good one. And to get it would have necessitated queuing up from early morning until the day seats went on sale because getting tickets from the box office was not a live option. Now it's going to be the same as everywhere else
I think you're being a bit pessimistic. Core repertoire is still the only thing that can attract audiences night after night. I think we'll still be getting the visiting orchestras for many years to come and events like tonight's will remain novelty attractions. |
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Tony Watson
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« Reply #31 on: 22:53:38, 27-08-2007 » |
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I noticed that BBC4 decided to overrun and stay for the encore this time!
And what a day for variety it's been - medieval German songs, a children's show about pollution and Mr Ball. I can't get too bothered about a concert like this evening's at the Proms as a one off. How does it compare with film music or Dankworth and Laine? But if popularity and some light relief are the thing, would a Prom concert of classical pops be so terrible, one that wouldn't have to suffer the indignities of air horns on the last night?
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xyzzzz__
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« Reply #32 on: 22:58:03, 27-08-2007 » |
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I think "dumbing-down" is needlessly hysterical.
"Perhaps rather than argue about fine music - which can easily become subjective - a more telling point might be to think in terms of commercial music and art music"
But isn't what is 'commercial' and what is 'art' highly subjective as well? Maybe the BBC should make as much music available, with a degree of commitment that avoids any charges of tokenism and let ppl take away whatever they want to take away from all of this.
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Milly Jones
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« Reply #33 on: 23:00:00, 27-08-2007 » |
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Can they? What would you get for a fiver in the West End?. And don't stars like him usually sell out? I was assuming it was an analagous case to my seeing Meier, Terfel, Domingo, Pappano etc two years ago. I could have seen them at the ROH, where they undoubtedly belong, but I should have had to pay about £40 for a poor seat instead of £32 for a good one. And to get it would have necessitated queuing up from early morning until the day seats went on sale because getting tickets from the box office was not a live option.
I think you're being a bit pessimistic. Core repertoire is still the only thing that can attract audiences night after night. I think we'll still be getting the visiting orchestras for many years to come and events like tonight's will remain novelty attractions.
Ok. I hold my hand up. This is obviously what most people want. I'm only speaking for myself you know. I wouldn't go to see the Three Tenors for example. I wouldn't go and see Russell Watson. I hate the Last Night....nuff said. I hope you're right about the core repertoire. "Novelty attractions" just cheapen it all for me. But then who am I? I'm just one small speck in the universe who is not important, who doesn't count - just giving a point of view. |
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We pass this way but once. This is not a rehearsal!
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IgnorantRockFan
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« Reply #34 on: 23:01:08, 27-08-2007 » |
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If people can get to the Proms they can also get to Theatreland and experience him there where in my opinion he belongs. Can they? What would you get for a fiver in the West End?. That's a really bad reason for including a performer at the Proms. I paid almost £40 to see Deep Purple (a rock band, for those who don't know) earlier this year. Next year let's have them at the Proms so their fans can get tickets for a fiver... |
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Allegro, ma non tanto
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Milly Jones
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« Reply #35 on: 23:02:14, 27-08-2007 » |
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I think "dumbing-down" is needlessly hysterical.
It isn't hysterical at all. It's an opinion. It just happens to be one that you don't agree with. I stand by it. (You can't hear me I know, but I'm really calm and quiet - not hysterical....)  |
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We pass this way but once. This is not a rehearsal!
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eruanto
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« Reply #36 on: 23:04:04, 27-08-2007 » |
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I like musicals and occasionally go to them, but listening to the duet with the girl from Lord of the Rings, my heart sank. It isn't fine music at all. Well, the very idea of a The Lord of the Rings musical is utterly repellent anyway... but I'm not going to sidetrack into that... But it could be argued that it is the function of the Proms to bring fine music to the masses, Milly. Just as the brillliant 'Ring' of the last four years was filled with people who might not be able to afford the prices or negotiate the arcane ticket allocation at major opera houses, so tonight's Prom gives 'an evening with Michael Ball' to people who just want to see someone they'd otherwise only be able to experience via recordings.
But with very, very different audiences - however fanatically one may grow to love Wagner, there is (or was for me at least) an aura or untouchability to it. I viewed it for years as something that I would probably like, but it seemed rather above me and always as something to be tackled at a more suitable time (whenever that may have been). Also of course it requires a great deal of concentration on the part of the listener, especially to begin with, when plots may be new. This is the fundamental difference between Wagner and Ball. The music that Ball spews out, in constrast, is designed to appeal to the modern audience with its concentration-span of what, a few minutes. All thanks to fly to society for that, I argue. The sheer length of Wagner was a major factor in drawing me to it in the end. And as for the concept of the Ball Prom itself: someone's using the back door... Not for me *sticks up for Milly, who rather seems to be needing some support in this dog-room at the mo* |
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HtoHe
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« Reply #37 on: 23:05:08, 27-08-2007 » |
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I noticed that BBC4 decided to overrun and stay for the encore this time!
Really?!! How long? I'm planning to phone in a complaint about the failure to broadcast the Haitink encore even though the broadcast wasn't live and the could have cut the waffle to include the encore. I will certainly be mentioning the contrast between Saturday and today. I don't suppose you know how late they finished, do you Tony? |
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Tony Watson
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« Reply #38 on: 23:06:29, 27-08-2007 » |
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Milly, I don't know why you think you're in a minority. I think most people round here agree with you.
I suppose I ought to be annoyed at the way Bunthorne's song from Patience was performed but I'm rather glad he felt he could include such an item and a subtle song like that would need to be played to the gallery more in such a venue. But I hope the camp gestures in it were intended to mock those whom the song was mocking, as the point about the song is that the singer isn't like that at all. I had a horrible suspicion, though, that many of the audience were laughing because they thought he was sending up classical music full stop.
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Tony Watson
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« Reply #39 on: 23:08:07, 27-08-2007 » |
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I noticed that BBC4 decided to overrun and stay for the encore this time!
Really?!! How long? I'm planning to phone in a complaint about the failure to broadcast the Haitink encore even though the broadcast wasn't live and the could have cut the waffle to include the encore. I will certainly be mentioning the contrast between Saturday and today. I don't suppose you know how late they finished, do you Tony? It was 10.10pm (I think) and they stayed to hear him sing one song. He even said that the concert was overrunning. |
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« Last Edit: 23:09:41, 27-08-2007 by Tony Watson »
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Andy D
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« Reply #40 on: 23:24:41, 27-08-2007 » |
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I'm just one small speck in the universe who is not important, who doesn't count - just giving a point of view.
Oh dear Milly, you are feeling down if you're now thinking about your significance wrt the whole universe, ie zero (give or take a few atoms). |
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Bert Coules
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« Reply #41 on: 23:26:45, 27-08-2007 » |
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You might say this isn't fine music-making and I'd agree with you but that's only our opinions.... But surely the operative criterion here isn't quality, it's classification. Of his type - of singer, or repertoire - Ball might well, for all I know, be perfectly fine. But his type is not - or hasn't been, so far - a type encompassed by the Proms. The argument is muddied by the lack of really acceptable terminology, but if I describe the Proms as, by tradition and history, a "classical" music festival, then most people will know pretty much what I mean by the phrase. "Classical music" in this sense doesn't, of course, mean Classical as opposed to Romantic or whatever; it means - well, here again, the terminology lets us down - it means "serious music" - which, of course, doesn't have to be in any way serious. What it doesn't mean is the type of repertoire that we were given tonight, or the type of performance of "classical music" that Ball and his comrades presented. But perhaps it's futile to say that the Proms shouldn't include such stuff. When the Promenade Concerts were a reflection of the contents, style and ethos of Radio 3's music output in general, such an argument might have made sense; but now that the station delights in giving equal weight to music which not too long ago would have been aired only as an infrequent curiosity, can such a viewpoint hold water for much longer? Perhaps the Proms are changing, just as Radio 3 has changed. If so, I shall have two great institutions to mourn rather than just one. Bert |
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HtoHe
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« Reply #42 on: 23:35:50, 27-08-2007 » |
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That's a really bad reason for including a performer at the Proms.
Certainly, IRF. The primary reasons should always be that the performers are good at what they do and want to appear at the Proms. But the fact is that we 'classical music' fans get to see world-class performers at prices much lower than we'd pay at many other venues. I'm largely playing devil's advocate here because I personally don't believe Michael Ball *is* a world-class performer; but it's not my opinion that counts. I do hint in my reply 21 that the organisers might now have trouble working out which types of musicians are appropriate. As for Deep Purple: well I'd rather see 'Concerto for rock group and orchestra' programmed than Michael Ball, but, again, that's just my opinion. I remember Soft Machine being on at the Proms many years ago but I was a bit too young to go, so there is a precedent! |
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Tony Watson
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« Reply #43 on: 23:40:57, 27-08-2007 » |
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Well, the very idea of a The Lord of the Rings musical is utterly repellent anyway... but I'm not going to sidetrack into that...
I might have asked you this before, eru, but do you find the film versions of LoR repellant? |
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Andy D
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« Reply #44 on: 23:59:26, 27-08-2007 » |
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I remember Soft Machine being on at the Proms many years ago but I was a bit too young to go, so there is a precedent!
I remember it too H, and I listened to it on R3. That must have been in 1972(?) but, after that, the Proms seem to have limped on for the last 35 years!  |
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