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Don Basilio
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« Reply #15 on: 21:45:05, 28-07-2008 » |
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I have looked up the TV transmission online and downloaded it. I haven't got round to listening and watching it, as it could never be as exciting as being present. I thought Susy Klein was unconvincingly gushy (and she ought to learn to keep her hands still - something professional tourist guides are drilled to do) and Robert Saxton was uninspiring but perfectly fair - his Sunday School account of the Transfigurtion was OK, but without mentioning the theological and symbolic aspects which Messaien (and to my mind the gospel writers) thought the most important thing about the story. He avoided any technical musical analysis, presumably on the basis that those who understood these things would know it already, and for those who don't, we mustn't frighten the horses.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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richard barrett
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« Reply #16 on: 23:56:32, 28-07-2008 » |
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... and La Transfiguration is indeed one of Messiaen's most "theological" works (in an output which is in general theological rather than, as is often sloppily claimed for dumbing-down-type reasons, "mystical"). I do wish I'd been there.
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #17 on: 09:00:48, 29-07-2008 » |
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Thank you for that, richard. Strictly speaking La Transfiguration is mystical, in that it is about the experience of God, but the texts are scriptural, liturgical(and I have discovered more than mentioned in the programme) or taken from Thomas Aquinas, the ultimate scholastic theologian.
As you hint people often say "mysticism" or "spirituality" rather than "theology" or "prayer" for the same sort of reasons that they say "heritage" rather than "history". The original terms are a bit demanding.
Sorry not to see you.
PS bbm - I have looked at the opening TV shots and you will look in vain for Ruth, David, tinners or me, although we were all there.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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brassbandmaestro
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« Reply #18 on: 20:11:00, 29-07-2008 » |
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I have recorded this so as I hav'nt watched it yet. If you guys can tell me where you are, I may be able to spot you!  David and I were front row centre, bbm, and almost next to each other (with David's other half in between). [/quote Yes Ruth!! I saw you guys! I havnt finished watching it yet, but wow, so far very good. Must have been quite something live! |
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #19 on: 21:04:04, 29-07-2008 » |
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Hey, bbm, did you see me too? Half way back slightly to the right? I could have told my mum. Can't think of any other reason why she would listen to Messaien, to be honest, but I'd love to tell here I'd been on telly. (Not that I would buy one. She keeps on saying it would be nice for me, but to be honest the snippets I see when I visit her convince me that 85% is pap.)
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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John W
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« Reply #20 on: 21:29:39, 29-07-2008 » |
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I see when I visit her convince me that 85% is pap.
Yeah. But the 15% between 8.00pm - 11.30pm is often interesting, especially if you have Sky Arts, Mainstreet and some Discovery/History channels. But even then I don't find time to watch the interesting stuff and my Sky+ is littered with Mozart progs not yet watched  Oh and some Proms too, but I'm struggling to keep a diary/schedule even with the booklet here  |
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« Last Edit: 21:31:20, 29-07-2008 by John W »
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #21 on: 18:16:29, 30-07-2008 » |
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Sorry if I'm sounding superior - one reason why I don't have a TV is I fear I would spend countless hours in front of it when I should be doing other useful things, like spending countless hours on message boards. It ensures some self discipline not to have one.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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time_is_now
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« Reply #22 on: 23:46:05, 30-07-2008 » |
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one reason why I don't have a TV is I fear I would spend countless hours in front of it when I should be doing other useful things, like spending countless hours on message boards. It ensures some self discipline not to have one.
Indeed - as does BT/Tiscali admin bug-ring up your internet connection. A friend has finally taken pity on me and loaned me his dongle and I've spent today catching up on emails - there's only so much you can do from an internet cafe, although having my laptop at my other half's house on Monday morning did allow me to engage in some fascinating post-Prom research on the liturgical context for La Transfiguration, aided and abetted by DonB's canny hint that much of the existing Messiaen scholarship I mentioned to him may be based on a misunderstanding of what Vatican II was all about. More anon. Re pauses short and longer, the one between the two 'septenaries' was just right, and musically justified. I'm not sure if Messiaen specified the 'short pause' mentioned in the programme between movements 10 and 11, but he sure as the gates of heaven didn't ask for it to be turned into a long pause and filled with the unmistakable sound of Tom Service prattling away at the top of the stalls. Thierry Fischer had raised his arms at the ready a good 40-50 seconds before he was actually able to do so, and the embarrassment was palpable to everyone except, presumably, TS. |
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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Bryn
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« Reply #23 on: 23:54:39, 30-07-2008 » |
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t_i_n, the pauses were for the benefit of the workers, especially the singers, who were expected to be wilting in the heat.
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Gnu2
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« Reply #24 on: 10:59:29, 05-08-2008 » |
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Hi all,
The pauses were indeed for the benefit of the workers - not so much to get their breath back (vocal stamina is not where this piece makes its demands) but because standing for an hour in the RAH choir seats, onstage or off, would have been sheer torture; this was recognised by TF (who said there would be a 2-minute sit after VII and a couple of shorter ones later) but R3 managed to cock it up by lengthening the later ones.
As it was, the calf muscles didn't want to know much about anything on Monday morning....
Cheers
GnuII
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brassbandmaestro
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« Reply #25 on: 15:29:11, 05-08-2008 » |
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If I remember rightly, they did announce it earlier on.
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #26 on: 21:15:34, 05-08-2008 » |
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At a family do on Saturday, I was speaking to an elder brother of my other half. He said he was singing in Guildford Cathedral next to a second tenor who had been singing the Messaien, and was due to sing the Verdi Requiem later in the proms. I asked him to check on the pauses. If he remembers, I will report back aftert the next family do.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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Gnu2
Posts: 6
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« Reply #27 on: 23:45:19, 05-08-2008 » |
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I'll say hi to him at the next Verdi rehearsal then.  |
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brassbandmaestro
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« Reply #28 on: 06:33:10, 06-08-2008 » |
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Any feebies for the Verdi Requiem?!?!?(Please!)
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #29 on: 12:21:17, 06-08-2008 » |
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Hello, gnu 2. Can you resolve the query as to why there was a second "short pause" after movement 10 of La Transfiguration? Was it to give the choir a breather, or give Tom Service further wittering opportunities?
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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